Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Add an intermediate task of helping triage issues (not to be confused with the
On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 23:05:06 +0100 brett.cannon python-checkins@python.org wrote:
+For bugs, an issue needs to:
+* Clearly explain the bug so it can be reproduced +* All relevant platform details are included +* What version(s) of Python are affected by the bug are fully known +* Is there a proper unit test that can reproduce the bug?
+These are things anyone can help with.
FWIW, I'm really not fond of handing out triage tasks to beginners. First because the claim that it doesn't require any specific knowledge is wrong (in the case of Python, because it is a highly technical product; it might be right for office suites, who knows). Second because a newbie triager gets to interact with other newbies who might be very confused if they are given misleading comments or asked misleading (or completely irrelevant) questions.
Things may be different when the person in question has been a long-time community member, or has specific expertise, and is therefore able to communicate meaningful advice. But for true beginners, I think it would be much better to let them write a patch or a doc fix.
Regards
Antoine.
Am 08.01.2011 23:22, schrieb Antoine Pitrou:
On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 23:05:06 +0100 brett.cannon python-checkins@python.org wrote:
+For bugs, an issue needs to:
+* Clearly explain the bug so it can be reproduced +* All relevant platform details are included +* What version(s) of Python are affected by the bug are fully known +* Is there a proper unit test that can reproduce the bug?
+These are things anyone can help with.
FWIW, I'm really not fond of handing out triage tasks to beginners. First because the claim that it doesn't require any specific knowledge is wrong (in the case of Python, because it is a highly technical product; it might be right for office suites, who knows). Second because a newbie triager gets to interact with other newbies who might be very confused if they are given misleading comments or asked misleading (or completely irrelevant) questions.
+1. Remember, this is not a purely hypothetical statement.
Things may be different when the person in question has been a long-time community member, or has specific expertise, and is therefore able to communicate meaningful advice. But for true beginners, I think it would be much better to let them write a patch or a doc fix.
Yep.
Georg
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 00:26, Georg Brandl g.brandl@gmx.net wrote:
Am 08.01.2011 23:22, schrieb Antoine Pitrou:
On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 23:05:06 +0100 brett.cannon python-checkins@python.org wrote:
+For bugs, an issue needs to:
+* Clearly explain the bug so it can be reproduced +* All relevant platform details are included +* What version(s) of Python are affected by the bug are fully known +* Is there a proper unit test that can reproduce the bug?
+These are things anyone can help with.
FWIW, I'm really not fond of handing out triage tasks to beginners. First because the claim that it doesn't require any specific knowledge is wrong (in the case of Python, because it is a highly technical product; it might be right for office suites, who knows). Second because a newbie triager gets to interact with other newbies who might be very confused if they are given misleading comments or asked misleading (or completely irrelevant) questions.
+1. Remember, this is not a purely hypothetical statement.
OK, so the sentence is poorly phrased, but in the list of tasks it is labeled explicitly as intermediate when one is comfortable with the process, not a newbie. Does that alleviate the worry you both have?
-Brett
Things may be different when the person in question has been a long-time community member, or has specific expertise, and is therefore able to communicate meaningful advice. But for true beginners, I think it would be much better to let them write a patch or a doc fix.
Yep.
Georg
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On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:18:12 -0800 Brett Cannon brett@python.org wrote:
OK, so the sentence is poorly phrased, but in the list of tasks it is labeled explicitly as intermediate when one is comfortable with the process, not a newbie. Does that alleviate the worry you both have?
It does seem to alleviate it :) Sorry for not noticing! However, could the following be removed from the list:
“Is there a proper unit test that can reproduce the bug?”
We don't need or require unit tests to reproduce bugs; and besides, some things simply are very difficult to write an unit test for. A reporter need not be an experienced Python developer able (or willing) to write an elaborate unit test reproducing, for example, a timing issue involving Unix signals and the IO stack ;)
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 10:24, Antoine Pitrou solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:18:12 -0800 Brett Cannon brett@python.org wrote:
OK, so the sentence is poorly phrased, but in the list of tasks it is labeled explicitly as intermediate when one is comfortable with the process, not a newbie. Does that alleviate the worry you both have?
It does seem to alleviate it :) Sorry for not noticing! However, could the following be removed from the list:
“Is there a proper unit test that can reproduce the bug?”
We don't need or require unit tests to reproduce bugs; and besides, some things simply are very difficult to write an unit test for. A reporter need not be an experienced Python developer able (or willing) to write an elaborate unit test reproducing, for example, a timing issue involving Unix signals and the IO stack ;)
Fair enough. I will remove it.
On 10/01/2011 19:05, Brett Cannon wrote:
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 10:24, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net mailto:solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:18:12 -0800 Brett Cannon <brett@python.org <mailto:brett@python.org>> wrote: > > OK, so the sentence is poorly phrased, but in the list of tasks it is > labeled explicitly as intermediate when one is comfortable with the > process, not a newbie. Does that alleviate the worry you both have? It does seem to alleviate it :) Sorry for not noticing! However, could the following be removed from the list: “Is there a proper unit test that can reproduce the bug?” We don't need or require unit tests to reproduce bugs; and besides, some things simply are very difficult to write an unit test for. A reporter need not be an experienced Python developer able (or willing) to write an elaborate unit test reproducing, for example, a timing issue involving Unix signals and the IO stack ;)Fair enough. I will remove it.
Well, *often* a test that exposes the issue can be written - and if so it is a useful exercise (surely).
Michael
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Le lundi 10 janvier 2011 à 19:26 +0000, Michael Foord a écrit :
Fair enough. I will remove it.
Well, *often* a test that exposes the issue can be written - and if so it is a useful exercise (surely).
Yes, well, that's a matter of "useful exercise for the contributor" vs. "required to advance on the issue". AFAICT the "stage" field aims at conveying the latter piece of information (the current wording says "unit test *needed*").
Regards
Antoine.
On 10/01/2011 19:31, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Le lundi 10 janvier 2011 à 19:26 +0000, Michael Foord a écrit :
Fair enough. I will remove it.
Well, *often* a test that exposes the issue can be written - and if so it is a useful exercise (surely).
Yes, well, that's a matter of "useful exercise for the contributor" vs. "required to advance on the issue". AFAICT the "stage" field aims at conveying the latter piece of information (the current wording says "unit test *needed*").
Aren't we discussing the dev guide? Discussion about tracker field is that away <-----.
Michael
Regards
Antoine.
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Le lundi 10 janvier 2011 à 19:37 +0000, Michael Foord a écrit :
On 10/01/2011 19:31, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Le lundi 10 janvier 2011 à 19:26 +0000, Michael Foord a écrit :
Fair enough. I will remove it.
Well, *often* a test that exposes the issue can be written - and if so it is a useful exercise (surely).
Yes, well, that's a matter of "useful exercise for the contributor" vs. "required to advance on the issue". AFAICT the "stage" field aims at conveying the latter piece of information (the current wording says "unit test *needed*").
Aren't we discussing the dev guide? Discussion about tracker field is that away <-----.
Oh, well. I think we're discussing the directions that a contributor willing to help triage could give so to advance an issue. I hope I'm not mistaken.
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:44, Antoine Pitrou solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
Le lundi 10 janvier 2011 à 19:37 +0000, Michael Foord a écrit :
On 10/01/2011 19:31, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Le lundi 10 janvier 2011 à 19:26 +0000, Michael Foord a écrit :
Fair enough. I will remove it.
Well, *often* a test that exposes the issue can be written - and if so it is a useful exercise (surely).
Yes, well, that's a matter of "useful exercise for the contributor" vs. "required to advance on the issue". AFAICT the "stage" field aims at conveying the latter piece of information (the current wording says "unit test *needed*").
Aren't we discussing the dev guide? Discussion about tracker field is that away <-----.
Oh, well. I think we're discussing the directions that a contributor willing to help triage could give so to advance an issue. I hope I'm not mistaken.
The doc has already been tweaked on my machine, so there is no need to continue this discussion.
participants (4)
-
Antoine Pitrou -
Brett Cannon -
Georg Brandl -
Michael Foord