On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 3:38 AM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 18:32:17 +0200 Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
Question: Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?
What would it do? (also, I think such questions are better asked on python-ideas)
Or python-list. Chances are there's a way to do it already, which would be of interest to other people who might be looking. But I've no idea what semantics are expected. :) ChrisA
You see, Antoine, *you* know that it's better asked on python-ideas because you know it doesn't exist in Python, therefore it's an idea for an addition. However, when a person like me asks this question, he does not know whether it exists or not, so he can't know whether he's proposing a new idea or whether it's something that exists under a different name or whether that's something that can't exist because of some unknown reason that the asker didn't think of. Now that I know it doesn't exist, I'll ask this on python-ideas. Thanks, Ram. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 18:32:17 +0200 Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
Question: Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?
What would it do? (also, I think such questions are better asked on python-ideas)
Regards
Antoine.
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On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
You see, Antoine, *you* know that it's better asked on python-ideas because you know it doesn't exist in Python, therefore it's an idea for an addition. However, when a person like me asks this question, he does not know whether it exists or not, so he can't know whether he's proposing a new idea or whether it's something that exists under a different name or whether that's something that can't exist because of some unknown reason that the asker didn't think of.
Now that I know it doesn't exist, I'll ask this on python-ideas.
I think there might be a language issue here because you originally said "Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?" which shows you already knew it didn't exist. Did you mean to say you wanted to know *why* it didn't exist? Even in that case, if searching for [python str.rreplace] didn't turn up anything then chances are there was no proposal, which makes it a new idea and thus belongs on python-ideas. Basically the rule of thumb is anything considered new goes to python-ideas first.
I knew it didn't exist by that name, but couldn't know whether there was another function that did the same thing or technique to make it not needed. So I couldn't know whether it's new or not, therefore I couldn't know whether it should be on python-ideas or not. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
You see, Antoine, *you* know that it's better asked on python-ideas because you know it doesn't exist in Python, therefore it's an idea for an addition. However, when a person like me asks this question, he does not know whether it exists or not, so he can't know whether he's proposing a new idea or whether it's something that exists under a different name or whether that's something that can't exist because of some unknown reason that the asker didn't think of.
Now that I know it doesn't exist, I'll ask this on python-ideas.
I think there might be a language issue here because you originally said "Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?" which shows you already knew it didn't exist. Did you mean to say you wanted to know *why* it didn't exist?
Even in that case, if searching for [python str.rreplace] didn't turn up anything then chances are there was no proposal, which makes it a new idea and thus belongs on python-ideas. Basically the rule of thumb is anything considered new goes to python-ideas first.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
I knew it didn't exist by that name, but couldn't know whether there was another function that did the same thing or technique to make it not needed.
So I couldn't know whether it's new or not, therefore I couldn't know whether it should be on python-ideas or not.
So then you were simply wondering about its existence, for which you should go to python-list or python-ideas first. Python-ideas exists *explicitly* as a filter for this kind of question which is why people are saying it should have gone there first (or to python-list). If you have any doubt as to whether a question should go here or not, then err on the side of caution and post to python-ideas or python-list first. -Brett
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
You see, Antoine, *you* know that it's better asked on python-ideas because you know it doesn't exist in Python, therefore it's an idea for an addition. However, when a person like me asks this question, he does not know whether it exists or not, so he can't know whether he's proposing a new idea or whether it's something that exists under a different name or whether that's something that can't exist because of some unknown reason that the asker didn't think of.
Now that I know it doesn't exist, I'll ask this on python-ideas.
I think there might be a language issue here because you originally said "Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?" which shows you already knew it didn't exist. Did you mean to say you wanted to know *why* it didn't exist?
Even in that case, if searching for [python str.rreplace] didn't turn up anything then chances are there was no proposal, which makes it a new idea and thus belongs on python-ideas. Basically the rule of thumb is anything considered new goes to python-ideas first.
Okay, next time I'll ask on python-ideas. (I do hope that no one there will be angry that I'm posting a question there rather than an idea...) On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
I knew it didn't exist by that name, but couldn't know whether there was another function that did the same thing or technique to make it not needed.
So I couldn't know whether it's new or not, therefore I couldn't know whether it should be on python-ideas or not.
So then you were simply wondering about its existence, for which you should go to python-list or python-ideas first. Python-ideas exists *explicitly* as a filter for this kind of question which is why people are saying it should have gone there first (or to python-list).
If you have any doubt as to whether a question should go here or not, then err on the side of caution and post to python-ideas or python-list first.
-Brett
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
You see, Antoine, *you* know that it's better asked on python-ideas because you know it doesn't exist in Python, therefore it's an idea for an addition. However, when a person like me asks this question, he does not know whether it exists or not, so he can't know whether he's proposing a new idea or whether it's something that exists under a different name or whether that's something that can't exist because of some unknown reason that the asker didn't think of.
Now that I know it doesn't exist, I'll ask this on python-ideas.
I think there might be a language issue here because you originally said "Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?" which shows you already knew it didn't exist. Did you mean to say you wanted to know *why* it didn't exist?
Even in that case, if searching for [python str.rreplace] didn't turn up anything then chances are there was no proposal, which makes it a new idea and thus belongs on python-ideas. Basically the rule of thumb is anything considered new goes to python-ideas first.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
Okay, next time I'll ask on python-ideas. (I do hope that no one there will be angry that I'm posting a question there rather than an idea...)
Nope, no one will. Just phrase it as "is there something like a str.rreplace? If not I think it would be useful because ...". The assumption is that if you are asking if something exists then you would like it to exist, in which case you should have a reason for wanting it. -Brett
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
I knew it didn't exist by that name, but couldn't know whether there was another function that did the same thing or technique to make it not needed.
So I couldn't know whether it's new or not, therefore I couldn't know whether it should be on python-ideas or not.
So then you were simply wondering about its existence, for which you should go to python-list or python-ideas first. Python-ideas exists *explicitly* as a filter for this kind of question which is why people are saying it should have gone there first (or to python-list).
If you have any doubt as to whether a question should go here or not, then err on the side of caution and post to python-ideas or python-list first.
-Brett
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
You see, Antoine, *you* know that it's better asked on python-ideas because you know it doesn't exist in Python, therefore it's an idea for an addition. However, when a person like me asks this question, he does not know whether it exists or not, so he can't know whether he's proposing a new idea or whether it's something that exists under a different name or whether that's something that can't exist because of some unknown reason that the asker didn't think of.
Now that I know it doesn't exist, I'll ask this on python-ideas.
I think there might be a language issue here because you originally said "Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?" which shows you already knew it didn't exist. Did you mean to say you wanted to know *why* it didn't exist?
Even in that case, if searching for [python str.rreplace] didn't turn up anything then chances are there was no proposal, which makes it a new idea and thus belongs on python-ideas. Basically the rule of thumb is anything considered new goes to python-ideas first.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2556108/how-to-replace-the-last-occurence... On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
Question: Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?
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-- Ryan If anybody ever asks me why I prefer C++ to C, my answer will be simple: "It's becauseslejfp23(@#Q*(E*EIdc-SEGFAULT. Wait, I don't think that was nul-terminated."
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language. I now looked at the 17 most recent python-list threads. Out of them: - 58% are about third-party packages. - 17% are off-topic (not even programming related) - 11% are 2-vs-3 discussions - 5% are job offers. - 5% (which is just one thread out of 17) is about Python the language. So can you understand why someone would be reluctant to start a discussion in python-list about Python the language there? Especially if this is the same place where beginners might ask newbies questions about Python? (So not only are actual Python questions just 5% of the content, non-newbie questions are just a subset of that 5%.) it's full of people asking about third-party Python packages, or asking newbie questions. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On 1/24/2014 11:32 AM, Ram Rachum wrote:
Question: Why is there no str.rreplace in Python?
Ram, this list is for discussing the development of the next few releases of CPython. General questions should go to python-list.
-- Terry Jan Reedy
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On 01/24/2014 09:19 AM, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
[snip]
it's full of people asking about third-party Python packages, or asking newbie questions.
Yes, so imagine how happy we would be to see an actual Python the Language question there! :) Setting follow-up to Python List. -- ~Ethan~
On 24/01/2014 17:19, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
I now looked at the 17 most recent python-list threads. Out of them:
- 58% are about third-party packages. - 17% are off-topic (not even programming related) - 11% are 2-vs-3 discussions - 5% are job offers. - 5% (which is just one thread out of 17) is about Python the language.
I'm extremely impressed by your knowledge of statistics, it must have taken you many man years of effort to analyse all 17 threads in such detail.
So can you understand why someone would be reluctant to start a discussion in python-list about Python the language there? Especially if this is the same place where beginners might ask newbies questions about Python? (So not only are actual Python questions just 5% of the content, non-newbie questions are just a subset of that 5%.)
it's full of people asking about third-party Python packages, or asking newbie questions.
How terrible, fancy having the audacity to ask about third party packages or newbie questions on the *MAIN* Python mailing list. There's yet another reason to bring back the death penalty in the UK. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2014 17:19, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
I now looked at the 17 most recent python-list threads. Out of them:
- 58% are about third-party packages. - 17% are off-topic (not even programming related) - 11% are 2-vs-3 discussions - 5% are job offers. - 5% (which is just one thread out of 17) is about Python the language.
I'm extremely impressed by your knowledge of statistics, it must have taken you many man years of effort to analyse all 17 threads in such detail.
So can you understand why someone would be reluctant to start a discussion in python-list about Python the language there? Especially if this is the same place where beginners might ask newbies questions about Python? (So not only are actual Python questions just 5% of the content, non-newbie questions are just a subset of that 5%.)
it's full of people asking about third-party Python packages, or asking newbie questions.
How terrible, fancy having the audacity to ask about third party packages or newbie questions on the *MAIN* Python mailing list. There's yet another reason to bring back the death penalty in the UK.
Please adjust the tone of your messages if you are going to use this mailing list.
On 24/01/2014 22:44, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2014 17:19, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
I now looked at the 17 most recent python-list threads. Out of them:
- 58% are about third-party packages. - 17% are off-topic (not even programming related) - 11% are 2-vs-3 discussions - 5% are job offers. - 5% (which is just one thread out of 17) is about Python the language.
I'm extremely impressed by your knowledge of statistics, it must have taken you many man years of effort to analyse all 17 threads in such detail.
So can you understand why someone would be reluctant to start a discussion in python-list about Python the language there? Especially if this is the same place where beginners might ask newbies questions about Python? (So not only are actual Python questions just 5% of the content, non-newbie questions are just a subset of that 5%.)
it's full of people asking about third-party Python packages, or asking newbie questions.
How terrible, fancy having the audacity to ask about third party packages or newbie questions on the *MAIN* Python mailing list. There's yet another reason to bring back the death penalty in the UK.
Please adjust the tone of your messages if you are going to use this mailing list.
I'm sorry but I do not understand, please explain what is wrong with an extremely heavy dose of sarcasm. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2014 22:44, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2014 17:19, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
I now looked at the 17 most recent python-list threads. Out of them:
- 58% are about third-party packages. - 17% are off-topic (not even programming related) - 11% are 2-vs-3 discussions - 5% are job offers. - 5% (which is just one thread out of 17) is about Python the language.
I'm extremely impressed by your knowledge of statistics, it must have taken you many man years of effort to analyse all 17 threads in such detail.
So can you understand why someone would be reluctant to start a discussion in python-list about Python the language there? Especially if this is the same place where beginners might ask newbies questions about Python? (So not only are actual Python questions just 5% of the content, non-newbie questions are just a subset of that 5%.)
it's full of people asking about third-party Python packages, or asking newbie questions.
How terrible, fancy having the audacity to ask about third party packages or newbie questions on the *MAIN* Python mailing list. There's yet another reason to bring back the death penalty in the UK.
Please adjust the tone of your messages if you are going to use this mailing list.
I'm sorry but I do not understand, please explain what is wrong with an extremely heavy dose of sarcasm.
There's a real discussion going on and you're just responding to throw around sarcasm. People aren't going to come to this list if you're just going to give them snarky replies. It's not helping.
On 24/01/2014 22:56, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2014 22:44, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2014 17:19, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
I now looked at the 17 most recent python-list threads. Out of them:
- 58% are about third-party packages. - 17% are off-topic (not even programming related) - 11% are 2-vs-3 discussions - 5% are job offers. - 5% (which is just one thread out of 17) is about Python the language.
I'm extremely impressed by your knowledge of statistics, it must have taken you many man years of effort to analyse all 17 threads in such detail.
So can you understand why someone would be reluctant to start a discussion in python-list about Python the language there? Especially if this is the same place where beginners might ask newbies questions about Python? (So not only are actual Python questions just 5% of the content, non-newbie questions are just a subset of that 5%.)
it's full of people asking about third-party Python packages, or asking newbie questions.
How terrible, fancy having the audacity to ask about third party packages or newbie questions on the *MAIN* Python mailing list. There's yet another reason to bring back the death penalty in the UK.
Please adjust the tone of your messages if you are going to use this mailing list.
I'm sorry but I do not understand, please explain what is wrong with an extremely heavy dose of sarcasm.
There's a real discussion going on and you're just responding to throw around sarcasm. People aren't going to come to this list if you're just going to give them snarky replies. It's not helping.
Okay, I'll leave the snarky comments to the people who are authorised to be snarky. How do you get on this list? Is it any core dev, or are there more severe restrictions than that, for example do you have to be a member of the PSF, in which case I'd guess you can be very snarky without having a word said against you? -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
On 24/01/2014 22:56, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2014 22:44, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Mark Lawrence < breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2014 17:19, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
I now looked at the 17 most recent python-list threads. Out of them:
- 58% are about third-party packages. - 17% are off-topic (not even programming related) - 11% are 2-vs-3 discussions - 5% are job offers. - 5% (which is just one thread out of 17) is about Python the language.
I'm extremely impressed by your knowledge of statistics, it must have taken you many man years of effort to analyse all 17 threads in such detail.
So can you understand why someone would be reluctant to start a
discussion in python-list about Python the language there? Especially if this is the same place where beginners might ask newbies questions about Python? (So not only are actual Python questions just 5% of the content, non-newbie questions are just a subset of that 5%.)
it's full of people asking about third-party Python packages, or asking newbie questions.
How terrible, fancy having the audacity to ask about third party packages or newbie questions on the *MAIN* Python mailing list. There's yet another reason to bring back the death penalty in the UK.
Please adjust the tone of your messages if you are going to use this mailing list.
I'm sorry but I do not understand, please explain what is wrong with an extremely heavy dose of sarcasm.
There's a real discussion going on and you're just responding to throw around sarcasm. People aren't going to come to this list if you're just going to give them snarky replies. It's not helping.
Okay, I'll leave the snarky comments to the people who are authorised to be snarky. How do you get on this list? Is it any core dev, or are there more severe restrictions than that, for example do you have to be a member of the PSF, in which case I'd guess you can be very snarky without having a word said against you?
I suspect Brian's point is sarcasm is fine in moderation. I'm sure we have all had incidences online where sarcasm was not understood and someone took it the wrong way. And with this list being international the chance of something not catching something as sarcastic just goes up. So sarcasm is fine, but keep it on the lighter side is all.
On 25 Jan 2014 09:46, "Brett Cannon" <brett@python.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Okay, I'll leave the snarky comments to the people who are authorised to be snarky. How do you get on this list? Is it any core dev, or are there more severe restrictions than that, for example do you have to be a member of the PSF, in which case I'd guess you can be very snarky without having a word said against you?
I suspect Brian's point is sarcasm is fine in moderation. I'm sure we have all had incidences online where sarcasm was not understood and someone took it the wrong way. And with this list being international the chance of something not catching something as sarcastic just goes up. So sarcasm is fine, but keep it on the lighter side is all.
I personally draw the line as so: - is my draft post *just* snark? Then I delete it rather than posting - such posts never further the discussion, increase the level of noise on the list, and generally waste the time of other list subscribers solely for some momentary emotional satisfaction on my part. If I really feel the need to vent, then I'll send the unhelpful post directly to a friend rather than to the list. This is the kind of post that has no place on any of the core development lists. - is there a snarky side comment in an otherwise constructive post? Then I'll usually take it out anyway, since such comments still usually hinder communication rather than helping it, and we already have enough inherent barriers to effective communication due to a relative lack of knowledge of each other's backgrounds and experience. However, if I'm genuinely irritated, I'll sometimes leave them in - I'm not a saint, and a snarky comment that indicates "I am annoyed by this thread or situation" is a vastly different thing from a snarky *post* that says to someone else "your post was bad and you should feel bad". - there are other times (fortunately rare), when I consider it necessary to express genuine concern or anger. My main tool for dealing with such posts in the most constructive manner possible is to find every occurrence of the pronoun "you" (or other people's names) and figure out how to replace it with the pronoun "I". The purpose of such rephrasing is to help ensure the post is a constructive one expressing my concerns and sharing my impressions and experience rather than a destructive one that causes the recipients to become defensive, because once we dig in our heels and start defending our positions out of ego rather than reason, then the opportunity for a meaningful, productive discussion is lost. So, a snarky side comment or two in otherwise constructive post? Not preferred, but usually acceptable. A post consisting of nothing but snark? Not acceptable - either don't post it, or send it to a trusted friend off-list in order to vent. In this specific case, our general communication about the different purposes of the core lists *isn't* particularly good, so it's entirely expected that we'll still get the occasional post to python-dev that is better directed to a different list. That's why everyone gets a free pass to asking one or two inappropriate questions on python-dev, since it isn't always clear to them that the question is off-topic. The appropriate response is to politely explain the purposes of the different lists and redirect them to the correct one. Cheers, Nick.
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On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:41:05AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
In this specific case, our general communication about the different purposes of the core lists *isn't* particularly good,
Nick, I beg to differ: I think that our communication in this regard actually is quite reasonable. Before signing up to Python-Dev via the website, one cannot help but see right at the top of the page: Do not post general Python questions to this list. For help with Python please see the Python help page. https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Although perhaps a link directly to the python-list mailing list as well wouldn't go astray.
so it's entirely expected that we'll still get the occasional post to python-dev that is better directed to a different list. That's why everyone gets a free pass to asking one or two inappropriate questions on python-dev, since it isn't always clear to them that the question is off-topic.
I agree with the conclusion, but not the reason. We should allow people a free pass for small errors, because we would appreciate such a free pass for small errors ourselves. To err is human, to forgive is humane, and a little bit of kindness helps grease the wheels of civilized discourse. (Also, there sometimes are grey areas where it isn't clear whether a question is on-topic or not. However, "Is there a version of str.replace that works from the right?" is not in that grey area.) What annoyed me most about Ram's thread is not that he made the mistake in the first place, but that when gently corrected, he choose to argue and give spurious reasons for why this was the right place to ask. Still, I think Mark's overly-aggressive use of sarcasm in an otherwise content-less post was out of proportion to the magnitude of Ram's transgression. -- Steven
On 25 January 2014 11:14, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:41:05AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
In this specific case, our general communication about the different purposes of the core lists *isn't* particularly good,
Nick, I beg to differ: I think that our communication in this regard actually is quite reasonable. Before signing up to Python-Dev via the website, one cannot help but see right at the top of the page:
Do not post general Python questions to this list. For help with Python please see the Python help page.
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Although perhaps a link directly to the python-list mailing list as well wouldn't go astray.
I believe you can currently post without subscribing, though. It isn't that the relevant information isn't available (it is: http://docs.python.org/devguide/communication.html), it's that there are lots of ways to miss that ifnformation, so there's always going to be the occasional misdirected question. And yes, I agree that responding to gentle redirection with "I still think this is the right place for my question" is not an appropriate way for anyone to behave. Moving on to practical matters: perhaps we should ensure a link to that communications page is included in the list descriptions and automated footers for at least python-dev and python-ideas, and also that we update it to include a link to the PSF code of conduct page? (The python-ideas footer already links directly to the CoC) Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
On Jan 24, 2014 9:13 PM, "Nick Coghlan" <ncoghlan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 25 January 2014 11:14, Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> wrote:
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:41:05AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
In this specific case, our general communication about the different purposes of the core lists *isn't* particularly good [...]
It isn't that the relevant information isn't available [...]
it's that there are lots of ways to miss that ifnformation, so there's always going to be the occasional misdirected question.
Should this sort of signal separation guidance be available from the following 3 URLs? - http://docs.python.org/devguide/communication.html - http://www.python.org/community/lists/ - https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo A do / do not treatment that could be linked to could also be helpful.
On 1/24/2014 12:19 PM, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
Python-list is the place for such discussions. Questions such as yours are common. I have been reading it for almost 17 years. -- Terry Jan Reedy
On Jan 24, 2014 11:43 AM, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On 1/24/2014 12:19 PM, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
Is there a link to this sort of information? (e.g. a page with group descriptions) (EDIT) http://www.python.org/community/lists/
Python-list is the place for such discussions. Questions such as yours
are common. I have been reading it for almost 17 years.
Http://reddit.com/r/learnpython can also be helpful, though it only supports markdown.
On 1/24/2014 12:50 PM, Wes Turner wrote:
On Jan 24, 2014 11:43 AM, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy@udel.edu <mailto:tjreedy@udel.edu>> wrote:
On 1/24/2014 12:19 PM, Ram Rachum wrote:
Hmm, on one hand I understand the need for the separation between python-dev and python-list, but on the other hand I don't think python-list is a good place to discuss Python, the language.
Is there a link to this sort of information? (e.g. a page with group descriptions)
mail.python.org, which redirects to https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo Python-list: General discussion list for the Python programming language Python-Dev Python core developers Python-ideas Discussions of speculative Python language ideas
Python-list is the place for such discussions. Questions such as yours are common. I have been reading it for almost 17 years.
-- Terry Jan Reedy
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 4:19 AM, Ram Rachum <ram@rachum.com> wrote:
I now looked at the 17 most recent python-list threads. Out of them:
- 58% are about third-party packages. - 17% are off-topic (not even programming related) - 11% are 2-vs-3 discussions - 5% are job offers. - 5% (which is just one thread out of 17) is about Python the language.
My analysis here is based on what I see arriving in Gmail, so some of them may have been dropped into spam. But these are the threads with the most recent posts: "The potential for a Python 2.8" - discussing the language, though the last few posts drifted off into numeric jokes (also fun). "Class and instance related questions" - short thread but completely on topic (so far) "Python declarative" - not all the code shown has been Python, and a lot of the discussion centers around alternatives like XML and JSON, but it's definitely focused on Python "datetime as subclass of date" - on topic "Can post a code but afraid of plagiarism" - haven't been following it, but last I saw it was on topic "Elementree and insert new element if it is not present" - might count as discussion of a separate module, I guess "generate De Bruijn sequence memory and string vs lists" - all about how to do it in Python, looks on topic to me "Need Help with Programming Science Project" - the OP never said that the program was to be in Python, but if we assume that, it's completely on topic Further down than that we have a few about SQLite, which Python comes with, and an announcement of a new version of Dipy. Far as I can see, that's only two threads that are truly about third-party modules (that and lxml). Yes, there's some noise on the list, but it's not as bad as 16/17ths of the threads. Maybe you're reading it in some way other than the mailing list, and it accrues more noise? ChrisA
participants (12)
-
Antoine Pitrou -
Brett Cannon -
Brian Curtin -
Chris Angelico -
Ethan Furman -
Mark Lawrence -
Nick Coghlan -
Ram Rachum -
Ryan Gonzalez -
Steven D'Aprano -
Terry Reedy -
Wes Turner