Guido van Rossum wrote:

I believe recent versions of Emacs and Vim have Python support standard. At least, it's been years since I last had to do anything to install it.

I've heard that there are two independent Python modes for Emacs -- though they are suppose to be pretty similar. I don't even know how to tell them apart.

--Guido

The more functional one is called "python-mode.el", and if it's loaded you'll have 2 python-related menus, one called "Python" and one called "IM-Python". The other is just called 'python.el' and results in one menu. It has far fewer features.

Brett> Python support is standard for Vim. But the stuff in Misc/Vim is Brett> much more up-to-date and specific to core development. Brett, I should have asked this before, but what's so special about core (Python?) development that the tools should be different than for non-core development? Skip

>> I should have asked this before, but what's so special about core >> (Python?) development that the tools should be different than for >> non-core development? Brett> Usually the core has keywords, built-ins, etc. that have not been Brett> pushed to the release versions for various editors. Ah, okay. Barry mentioned something about adjusting the python-mode syntax tables to include Python 3.x stuff, though patches are always welcome. <wink> Brett> Plus coding guidelines might be different from PEPs 7 and 8 Brett> compared to what an editor is set to do by default. That might be a bit more challenging. I was thinking today that it would be kind of nice to have a set of predefined settings for Python's new C style (someone mentioned producing that). Should that go in the C/C++ mode or be delivered somehow else? Skip

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 4, 2008, at 7:47 PM, skip@pobox.com wrote:

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I should have asked this before, but what's so special about core (Python?) development that the tools should be different than for non-core development?

Brett> Usually the core has keywords, built-ins, etc. that have not been Brett> pushed to the release versions for various editors.

Ah, okay. Barry mentioned something about adjusting the python-mode syntax tables to include Python 3.x stuff, though patches are always welcome. <wink>

If left to me, it might not happen until I start writing a lot of Python 3 code :).

Brett> Plus coding guidelines might be different from PEPs 7 and 8 Brett> compared to what an editor is set to do by default.

That might be a bit more challenging. I was thinking today that it would be kind of nice to have a set of predefined settings for Python's new C style (someone mentioned producing that). Should that go in the C/C++ mode or be delivered somehow else?

I think it might not be horrible if python-mode.el included a function that installed Python's new C style, which you could then select through your mode hook or whatever. It's been ages since I hacked on that stuff, but I wonder how far Python's new C style differs from the built-in styles. Maybe there's one that's already close enough? - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR6fITXEjvBPtnXfVAQIlZwQApRs/VC2tV7auSRjK2AuWuFf7i/k5EPTf ZaBSgmHtb8jENTvOZju2XOnOVdhlgHO5Zec5ptvXKc3Y1Mzl9API2RjH0jP9G8mt mzI22bGScnCbA5bpzM7kh5cyg939+GzUmUF7BsRoAquIwKRdf5NHbJG+qcxKO0pK vcKIuf6eJxM= =Ltuj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

To say I "use" emacs would be an understatement. I *live* in emacs. On 04:32 pm, jflatow@northwestern.edu wrote:

I recently upgraded to the emacs 22.1/python.el which I tried *really* hard to use, but eventually ended up installing python-mode again. There are a number of problems in the emacs lisp that I was able to get around, but eventually the bugginess overcame my will: *R, RE, and RET (i.e. the keystroke shift-r) were bound to commands in the major mode (meaning you couldn't type an R without triggering python-send-string). You can comment out this line in python.el to get around this:

Personally, I have been using GNU Emacs's new python mode since I discovered it, and I've never encountered any of the bugs you just described. (Perhaps you are describing bugs that arise from trying to use it with XEmacs?) I have, however, found that it is *less* buggy in certain circumstances; it seems to indent parentheses correctly in more circumstances, and it isn't confused by triple-quoted strings. It also has functioning support for which-func-mode which python-mode.el doesn't seem to (a hack which displays the current scope on the modeline, which is very helpful for long classes: I can just glance down and see "FooBarBaz.bozBuz()" rather than needing to hit "C-M-r ^class" As always, YMMV. Also, I use twisted-dev.el for all of my Python development. I don't think I'll ever be able to go back to F9 doing anything but running tests for the current buffer. Apparently there's a "ctypes-dev" based on those hacks in the main Python repository which basically does the same thing. (I'd also strongly recommend binding F5 to 'next-error'. It makes hopping around in the error stack nice and easy.) Finally, for you Ubuntu developers, I'm also using the the pre-release XFT GNU emacs, which is very pretty. So far, despite stern and dire warnings, it has had no stability issues: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/XftGnuEmacs Look for the "PPA" deb lines there, and you get a nicely prepackaged, policy-compliant version of emacs with no need to build anything yourself. (I've also got a personal collection of hacks that, if anyone likes TextMate-style "snippets", I'll email you. It does stuff like turning """ into """\n(indent)\n"""\n and "class " into "class (cursor here):\n"""\n(indent)\n"""\n(indent)\n". I haven't cleaned it up for a public release since a lot of people seem to think that automatically inserting text is pretty obnoxious and I just don't have the energy for that debate.)

On 04/02/2008, Guido van Rossum wrote:

On Feb 4, 2008 9:12 AM, wrote:

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To say I "use" emacs would be an understatement. I *live* in emacs.

http://www.xkcd.com/378/

BTW, it's often worth checking out the alt text on xkcd cartoons... Paul.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 4, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Neal Becker wrote:

glyph@divmod.com wrote:

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Finally, for you Ubuntu developers, I'm also using the the pre- release XFT GNU emacs, which is very pretty. So far, despite stern and dire warnings, it has had no stability issues:

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/XftGnuEmacs

Look for the "PPA" deb lines there, and you get a nicely prepackaged, policy-compliant version of emacs with no need to build anything yourself.

FYI, I have built xft gnu emacs, as well as xft xemacs for fedora F7/8. I can make the srpms available if anyone wants them.

I use xemacs all day every day and never see any problem (except for some slight font droppings).

Me too, on multiple platforms. Specifically, 21.5.28 (or .27) on OS X (Tiger & Leopard) and Linux (Ubuntu & Gentoo). 21.5.28 has one little buglet that I've already complained to Stephen about but other than that, it works beautifully. FWIW, Skip and I will probably keep maintaining python-mode.el and I intend to update its syntax highlighting for Python 3 at some point. But for the most part, it just works well enough for me. The reason there are two Python modes is the same reason there is FSF Emacs and XEmacs <wink>. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR6d39XEjvBPtnXfVAQLIUQQAgLbE4vsagSZPOaM5mdlXhbb75ws3oA+M WZXip9ZA3uSuResiC4miSGQNQZiBAjH4oQA+JjVOls3scOD58jq59ZSXdTSiL3oL sP/hn1zZxGoC8MF1NranPlnIpWNB9Ga6i/To0WKUiME8uXOwfwGlnTfMILYhqnYE 1inLziB5gxc= =uTN4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 4, 2008, at 5:34 PM, skip@pobox.com wrote:

Barry> The reason there are two Python modes is the same reason there is Barry> FSF Emacs and XEmacs <wink>.

I remember something about some GNU person submitting an enormous patch that would have made continued distribution of python-mode.el with Python untenable because it would have been GPL'd or some such.

That rings a bell.

Which reminds me. I should sync Misc/python-mode.el for both trunk and py3k branches with the latest version from the SF python-mode project.

Yes, thanks! - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR6ede3EjvBPtnXfVAQJAVwP+Nq9nVdTVKQpsnY+zIgnhUezMbWgiUDEm ggW5fHXmUP1zuoxHRn43PRKBtbHyX/57xBqlrGCJEW5nGbm/YV2cQgdX+B9F0q26 owH4vBXLjWs3kkPxvCrpLIB1ndjXDT3Ze04Oy7013p5z9whVEb5C+KSZpxkEa5c5 AjNIFkgAzqA= =nJJI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Feb 4, 2008, at 11:12 AM, glyph@divmod.com wrote:

Personally, I have been using GNU Emacs's new python mode since I discovered it, and I've never encountered any of the bugs you just described. (Perhaps you are describing bugs that arise from trying to use it with XEmacs?)

I'm not using XEmacs, but perhaps its Leopard-related. jared

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 4, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:

GUD (the Emacs debugger interface) works well with gdb and pdb.

Don't forget pdbtrack which is in python-mode.el (don't know about python.el). Ken Manheimer wrote this and it rocks. It basically tracks pdb prompts in a shell buffer so it makes it really easy to just add a break point, run your code from the command line, and get dual-window tracing from the shell. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBR6d4gHEjvBPtnXfVAQJg9AP/eM+6Qhni7PuEDFlfwuuVPnT/Zhhy9kdJ D2rAgGaMg8mYiBV8IGtdpG+tajmeodQUn2UFZTnN+d4CH4Z5JOGFBo4jKGI731se K8cXtmr+TV2Yv838kOKyTJvKmo8zpCTSkYaBZ2swHbTMq3FEEm1Aa7mVZyjBqYTs V8QrDYCoGAE= =JIhC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----