Re: [Python-Dev] Python should be easily compilable on Windows with MinGW
Theoretically yes. Practically, I think, but do not know for sure, it would have the same annoying issues as other SDK builds (of which, the most annoying is just different paths for the tools). Making that a supported build would require some of the same effort as supporting any other compiler though (a build bot configured to compile python this way). I also think, but am not sure, that what you linked is in fact the leaner meaner toolchain that Steve was referring to. On 2/27/2016 16:49, Chris Krycho wrote:
Outsider/observer here; but is it not possible to build Python using the VS *toolchain* (compiler, linker, etc.) outside of VS itself—i.e. using MSBuild[1] and so on? That would remove the need for the full VS install, and is *much* smaller (~800MB after installation, rather than 9GB). A lean and mean VS will be a great improvement regardless, but it seems like that would be a good intermediate solution if it’s possible.
[1]: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=49983
– Chris
On February 27, 2016 at 4:36:54 PM, Alexander Walters (tritium-list@sdamon.com <mailto:tritium-list@sdamon.com>) wrote:
The 9 gig initial download is not the only problem. Visual studio is very bandwidth hungry in day to day operations (between polling websites and vcs remotes, near constant updating, integration with the VS web service, etc.). You can of course shut all of that off, but it's a pain. It's my understanding from Steve's post that a leaner, meaner edition of VS is in the works, so waiting for that might just be an overall better solution.
On 2/27/2016 16:27, Franklin? Lee wrote:
For this particular case, is there someone generous enough (or, can someone apply for a PSF grant) to ship Mathieu a DVD/two/flash drive?
On Feb 26, 2016 12:18 PM, "Mathieu Dupuy" <deronnax@gmail.com <mailto:deronnax@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi. I am currently working on adding some functionality on a standard library module (http://bugs.python.org/issue15873). The Python part went fine, but now I have to do the C counterpart, and I have ran into in several problems, which, stacked up, are a huge obstacle to easily contribute further. Currently, despite I could work, I can't go further on my patch.
I am currently working in very limited network, CPU and time ressources* which are quite uncommon in the western world, but are much less in the rest of the world. I have a 2GB/month mobile data plan and a 100KB/s speed. For the C part of my patch, I should download Visual Studio. The Express Edition 2015 is roughly 9GB. I can't afford that.
I downloaded Virtualbox and two Linux netinstall (Ubuntu 15.10 and Fedora 23). Shortly, I couldn't get something working quickly and simply (quickly = less than 2 hours, downloading time NOT included, which is anyway way too already much). What went wrong and why it went wrong could be a whole new thread and is outside of the scope of this message. Let me precise this : at my work I use many virtualbox instances automatically fired and run in parallel to test new deployments and run unittests. I like this tool, but despite its simple look, it (most of the time) can not be used simply by a profane. The concepts it requires you to understand are not intuitive at first sight and there is *always* a thing that go wrong (guest additions, mostly).(for example : Ubuntu and Virtualbox shipped for a moment a broken version of mount.vboxsf, preventing sharing folder to mount. Despite it's fixed, the broken releases spread everywhere and you may encounter them a lot in various Ubuntu and Virtualbox version. I downloaded the last versions of both and I am yet infected. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12879). I could do whole new thread on why you can't ask newcomers to use Virtualbox (currently, at least).
I ran into is a whole patch set to make CPython compile on MinGW (https://bugs.python.org/issue3871#msg199695). But it is not denying it's very experimental, and I know I would again spent useless hours trying to get it work rather than joyfully improving Python, and that's exactly what I do not want to happen.
Getting ready to contribute to CPython pure python modules from an standard, average mr-everyone Windows PC for a beginner-to-medium contributor only require few megabytes of internet and few minutes of his time: getting a tarball of CPython sources (or cloning the github CPython mirror)**, a basic text editor and msys-git. The step further, if doing some -even basic- C code is required, implies downloading 9GB of Visual Studio and countless hours for it to be ready to use. I think downloading the whole Visual Studio suite is a huge stopper to contribute further for an average medium-or-below-contributor.
I think (and I must not be the only one since CPython is to be moved to github), that barriers to contribute to CPython should be set to the lowest. Of course my situation is a bit special but I think it represents daily struggle of a *lot* of non-western programmer (at least for limited internet)(even here in Australia, landline limited internet connections are very common). It's not a big deal if the MinGW result build is twenty time slower or if some of the most advanced modules can't be build. But everyone programmer should be able to easily make some C hacks and get them to work.
Hoping you'll be receptive to my pleas, Cheers
* I am currently picking fruits in the regional Australia. I live in a van and have internet through with smartphone through an EDGE connection. I can plug the laptop in the farm but not in the van. ** No fresh programmer use mercurial unless he has a gun pointed on his head. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org <mailto:Python-Dev@python.org> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/leewangzhong%2Bpython%40g...
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Yep, that link is part of what I was talking about, though really it's one of a few experiments we're working on right now for making the build tools more accessible. I'm not sure it is currently sufficient for building CPython, but that's why I'm working with the team on these - what is eventually settled on should support all of the cases we care about here. Top-posted from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: "Alexander Walters" <tritium-list@sdamon.com> Sent: 2/27/2016 14:16 To: "Chris Krycho" <chris@krycho.com>; "python-dev@python.org" <python-dev@python.org> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python should be easily compilable on Windows withMinGW Theoretically yes. Practically, I think, but do not know for sure, it would have the same annoying issues as other SDK builds (of which, the most annoying is just different paths for the tools). Making that a supported build would require some of the same effort as supporting any other compiler though (a build bot configured to compile python this way). I also think, but am not sure, that what you linked is in fact the leaner meaner toolchain that Steve was referring to. On 2/27/2016 16:49, Chris Krycho wrote: Outsider/observer here; but is it not possible to build Python using the VS *toolchain* (compiler, linker, etc.) outside of VS itself—i.e. using MSBuild[1] and so on? That would remove the need for the full VS install, and is *much* smaller (~800MB after installation, rather than 9GB). A lean and mean VS will be a great improvement regardless, but it seems like that would be a good intermediate solution if it’s possible. [1]: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=49983 – Chris On February 27, 2016 at 4:36:54 PM, Alexander Walters (tritium-list@sdamon.com) wrote: The 9 gig initial download is not the only problem. Visual studio is very bandwidth hungry in day to day operations (between polling websites and vcs remotes, near constant updating, integration with the VS web service, etc.). You can of course shut all of that off, but it's a pain. It's my understanding from Steve's post that a leaner, meaner edition of VS is in the works, so waiting for that might just be an overall better solution. On 2/27/2016 16:27, Franklin? Lee wrote: For this particular case, is there someone generous enough (or, can someone apply for a PSF grant) to ship Mathieu a DVD/two/flash drive? On Feb 26, 2016 12:18 PM, "Mathieu Dupuy" <deronnax@gmail.com> wrote: Hi. I am currently working on adding some functionality on a standard library module (http://bugs.python.org/issue15873). The Python part went fine, but now I have to do the C counterpart, and I have ran into in several problems, which, stacked up, are a huge obstacle to easily contribute further. Currently, despite I could work, I can't go further on my patch. I am currently working in very limited network, CPU and time ressources* which are quite uncommon in the western world, but are much less in the rest of the world. I have a 2GB/month mobile data plan and a 100KB/s speed. For the C part of my patch, I should download Visual Studio. The Express Edition 2015 is roughly 9GB. I can't afford that. I downloaded Virtualbox and two Linux netinstall (Ubuntu 15.10 and Fedora 23). Shortly, I couldn't get something working quickly and simply (quickly = less than 2 hours, downloading time NOT included, which is anyway way too already much). What went wrong and why it went wrong could be a whole new thread and is outside of the scope of this message. Let me precise this : at my work I use many virtualbox instances automatically fired and run in parallel to test new deployments and run unittests. I like this tool, but despite its simple look, it (most of the time) can not be used simply by a profane. The concepts it requires you to understand are not intuitive at first sight and there is *always* a thing that go wrong (guest additions, mostly).(for example : Ubuntu and Virtualbox shipped for a moment a broken version of mount.vboxsf, preventing sharing folder to mount. Despite it's fixed, the broken releases spread everywhere and you may encounter them a lot in various Ubuntu and Virtualbox version. I downloaded the last versions of both and I am yet infected. https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12879). I could do whole new thread on why you can't ask newcomers to use Virtualbox (currently, at least). I ran into is a whole patch set to make CPython compile on MinGW (https://bugs.python.org/issue3871#msg199695). But it is not denying it's very experimental, and I know I would again spent useless hours trying to get it work rather than joyfully improving Python, and that's exactly what I do not want to happen. Getting ready to contribute to CPython pure python modules from an standard, average mr-everyone Windows PC for a beginner-to-medium contributor only require few megabytes of internet and few minutes of his time: getting a tarball of CPython sources (or cloning the github CPython mirror)**, a basic text editor and msys-git. The step further, if doing some -even basic- C code is required, implies downloading 9GB of Visual Studio and countless hours for it to be ready to use. I think downloading the whole Visual Studio suite is a huge stopper to contribute further for an average medium-or-below-contributor. I think (and I must not be the only one since CPython is to be moved to github), that barriers to contribute to CPython should be set to the lowest. Of course my situation is a bit special but I think it represents daily struggle of a *lot* of non-western programmer (at least for limited internet)(even here in Australia, landline limited internet connections are very common). It's not a big deal if the MinGW result build is twenty time slower or if some of the most advanced modules can't be build. But everyone programmer should be able to easily make some C hacks and get them to work. Hoping you'll be receptive to my pleas, Cheers * I am currently picking fruits in the regional Australia. I live in a van and have internet through with smartphone through an EDGE connection. I can plug the laptop in the farm but not in the van. ** No fresh programmer use mercurial unless he has a gun pointed on his head. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/leewangzhong%2Bpython%40g... _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/tritium-list%40sdamon.com _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/chris%40chriskrycho.com
participants (2)
-
Alexander Walters -
Steve Dower