-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/01/2012 06:31 PM, Matěj Cepl wrote:

On 1.4.2012 23:46, Brian Curtin wrote:

...

For what reason? Are the git or bzr files causing issues on HG?

No, but wrong .gitignore causes issues with git repo obtained via hg-fast-import. If it is meant as an intentional sabotage of using git (and bzr) for cpython, then that's the only explanation I can understand, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me why these files are in HG repository at all.

Hanlon's Razor, paraphrased: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adqeuately explained by [bitrot]." Actually, the Goethe quote from [1] is even more apropos: "[M]isunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent." [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk94868ACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ505gCghFGqdB6KUMExjxAxjkb1vGu2 /GMAn3k/wNqphKwancGHWageYGpefzTB =KJrm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 19:44:00 -0500 Brian Curtin wrote:

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 17:31, Matěj Cepl wrote:

...

On 1.4.2012 23:46, Brian Curtin wrote:

...

For what reason? Are the git or bzr files causing issues on HG?

No, but wrong .gitignore causes issues with git repo obtained via hg-fast-import. If it is meant as an intentional sabotage of using git (and bzr) for cpython, then that's the only explanation I can understand, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me why these files are in HG repository at all.

Then you won't understand. Sometimes things get out of date when they aren't used or maintained.

You're welcome to fix the problem if you're a Git user, as suggested earlier.

That said, these files will always be outdated, so we might as well remove them so that at least git / bzr users don't get confused. Regards Antoine.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Stefan Behnel wrote:

Antoine Pitrou, 02.04.2012 13:50:

...

On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 19:44:00 -0500 Brian Curtin wrote:

...

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 17:31, Matěj Cepl wrote:

...

On 1.4.2012 23:46, Brian Curtin wrote:

...

For what reason? Are the git or bzr files causing issues on HG?

No, but wrong .gitignore causes issues with git repo obtained via hg-fast-import. If it is meant as an intentional sabotage of using git (and bzr) for cpython, then that's the only explanation I can understand, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me why these files are in HG repository at all.

Then you won't understand. Sometimes things get out of date when they aren't used or maintained.

You're welcome to fix the problem if you're a Git user, as suggested earlier.

That said, these files will always be outdated, so we might as well remove them so that at least git / bzr users don't get confused.

How often is anything added to the .hgignore file? I doubt that these files will "sufficiently always" be outdated to be unhelpful.

How about using symlinks and only using a common syntax in .hgignore that git also understands? Greetings, Tom

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

That said, these files will always be outdated, so we might as well remove them so that at least git / bzr users don't get confused.

Apologies for what may be a stupid suggestion, but is it possible to write a script that generates .gitignore and .bzrignore from .hgignore? That ought to solve the problem - take the former two out of the repository, and everyone who wants to use git or bzr can simply generate them on requirement. Chris Angelico

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

That said, these files will always be outdated, so we might as well remove them so that at least git / bzr users don't get confused.

Given that they were originally *added* by core devs that are (or were) using git/bzr for their own local development, I don't think it's quite that simple. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:44:32 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 07:43:20 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote:

...

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

...

That said, these files will always be outdated, so we might as well remove them so that at least git / bzr users don't get confused.

Given that they were originally *added* by core devs that are (or were) using git/bzr for their own local development, I don't think it's quite that simple.

Wasn't it back when SVN was still our official VCS, though? I don't think Barry still uses bzr, and who ever used git to manage their patches against the CPython repo?

That's my memory, too. I have to laugh at the claim that Barry doesn't use bzr. (But yeah, I know what you mean, I think he does use hg now for cpython development.) I think Benjamin was the one who used git, but I'm probably misremembering. --David

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote:

On 1.4.2012 23:46, Brian Curtin wrote:

...

For what reason? Are the git or bzr files causing issues on HG?

No, but wrong .gitignore causes issues with git repo obtained via hg-fast-import. If it is meant as an intentional sabotage of using git (and bzr) for cpython, then that's the only explanation I can understand, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me why these files are in HG repository at all.

As Guido explained, the bzr and git ignore files are there to allow Git and Bzr users to collaborate on them, updating a standard copy when the .hgignore entries change (which doesn't happen very often). If they get outdated (or otherwise contain erroneous entries), then the appropriate response is to either update them directly (core developers that use a different DVCS for their local workflow), or raise a tracker issue pointing out they they have become stale (everyone else that uses a different DVCS for their local workflow). Regards, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

On 02/04/2012 07:03, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

Am 02.04.2012 00:31, schrieb Matěj Cepl:

...

On 1.4.2012 23:46, Brian Curtin wrote:

...

For what reason? Are the git or bzr files causing issues on HG?

No, but wrong .gitignore causes issues with git repo obtained via hg-fast-import. If it is meant as an intentional sabotage of using git (and bzr) for cpython, then that's the only explanation I can understand, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me why these files are in HG repository at all.

Sabotage, most certainly.

I had to laugh. It's the deadpan delivery. TJG

On 2.4.2012 00:52, Guido van Rossum wrote:

Please file a bug to get this reviewed and checked in.

OK, I don't agree with the reasoning, but I willingly submit to BDFL ;) http://bugs.python.org/issue14472 Matěj

On 2.4.2012 05:26, Scott Dial wrote:

Create an issue on the bug tracker. In the meantime, you can either commit the change to your clone, or you can put your ignores into .git/info/exclude. No reason to be so sore about it, since Git lets you have your own ignore file without requiring it be a tracked file.

And yes, I am sorry for the tone of my original post. The fact I didn't understand the reason, doesn't excuse me. Matěj