I like the batteries included approach, but I also feel resistence against including stuff I cannot maintain. The XML code base is a point in case; I don't understand enough about XML. (I just read that xmllib.py is "illegal". Jeez! What happened? Did Congress pass a law against it?) I think it may be time for separate Python distributions, like Linux -- I can concentrate on the core, and keep it really small; others can make all-encompassing distributions. There are currently some drawbacks to this approach: non-core modules have less status; and the documentation process is fundamentally different for core and non-core modules. There's also the version dependency stuff, but I think resolving that is the responsibility of the distribution makers. I think the status problem will be gone once there is a respected distribution -- then you derive status from being in that distribution, rather than from being in the core distribution. (Well, you would still derive status from being in the core, but it would be much harder to obtain, since I can set a much higher standard.) The documentation problem is the one that's left. I think the doc-sig may be on its way as we speak to solve this, though. Fred? This isn't rocket science. Red Hat Python? I'm all for it! :-) --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
Guido van Rossum [guido@CNRI.Reston.VA.US] wrote:
My fear is what we face in the Zope world---different distributions break in totally diffrent ways, and sometimes we have to ask 30 questions to figure out what might be going wrong :/ The nice thing is hat if someone installes Python from the source, we know what's going to happen. I don't know if this is solvable, honestly.
This isn't rocket science. Red Hat Python? I'm all for it! :-)
I think Guido just wants to IPO and retire :-) Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli | petrilli@amber.org
Guido van Rossum wrote:
I think we should wait for distutils to get up and running perfectly for everyone before taking such a step. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg ______________________________________________________________________ Y2000: 15 days left Business: http://www.lemburg.com/ Python Pages: http://www.lemburg.com/python/
On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
This is an interesting comment, and is similar to the Apache sentiment. Nothing gets added to the standard distribution unless somebody in the Group is willing to maintain it. It provides a good mechanism for keeping the module set to a reasonable size and a set that can/will actually be maintained.
You can also operate on the assumption that it will be done by the time 1.6 is ready to be released. In other words: do the work (distutils and minimizing the release) in parallel, rather than in sequence. I would also think that a large distro isn't going to be assembled with distutils. Somebody will sit down, pull all the components together, and make a big release. However, I do see the distutils as being needed for the people who grab the minimal distro. They need it to grab add'l packages. Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
MAL:
I think we should wait for distutils to get up and running perfectly for everyone before taking such a step.
Fair enough -- but in the mean time, no more pushing for new modules in the core distribution (distutils excluded). --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
On 17 December 1999, Guido van Rossum said:
Fair enough -- but in the mean time, no more pushing for new modules in the core distribution (distutils excluded).
So anyone who wants a new module snuck into the core just has to convince me to add it the distutils package, right? >snicker< Greg
"GvR" == Guido van Rossum <guido@CNRI.Reston.VA.US> writes:
GvR> Fair enough -- but in the mean time, no more pushing for new GvR> modules in the core distribution (distutils excluded). Perhaps the right long-term solution (post-distutils) is to split Python into a core architected by Guido and a bazaar-style standard library maintained in a more apache-style. Jeremy
Guido van Rossum [guido@CNRI.Reston.VA.US] wrote:
My fear is what we face in the Zope world---different distributions break in totally diffrent ways, and sometimes we have to ask 30 questions to figure out what might be going wrong :/ The nice thing is hat if someone installes Python from the source, we know what's going to happen. I don't know if this is solvable, honestly.
This isn't rocket science. Red Hat Python? I'm all for it! :-)
I think Guido just wants to IPO and retire :-) Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli | petrilli@amber.org
Guido van Rossum wrote:
I think we should wait for distutils to get up and running perfectly for everyone before taking such a step. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg ______________________________________________________________________ Y2000: 15 days left Business: http://www.lemburg.com/ Python Pages: http://www.lemburg.com/python/
On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
This is an interesting comment, and is similar to the Apache sentiment. Nothing gets added to the standard distribution unless somebody in the Group is willing to maintain it. It provides a good mechanism for keeping the module set to a reasonable size and a set that can/will actually be maintained.
You can also operate on the assumption that it will be done by the time 1.6 is ready to be released. In other words: do the work (distutils and minimizing the release) in parallel, rather than in sequence. I would also think that a large distro isn't going to be assembled with distutils. Somebody will sit down, pull all the components together, and make a big release. However, I do see the distutils as being needed for the people who grab the minimal distro. They need it to grab add'l packages. Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
MAL:
I think we should wait for distutils to get up and running perfectly for everyone before taking such a step.
Fair enough -- but in the mean time, no more pushing for new modules in the core distribution (distutils excluded). --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
On 17 December 1999, Guido van Rossum said:
Fair enough -- but in the mean time, no more pushing for new modules in the core distribution (distutils excluded).
So anyone who wants a new module snuck into the core just has to convince me to add it the distutils package, right? >snicker< Greg
"GvR" == Guido van Rossum <guido@CNRI.Reston.VA.US> writes:
GvR> Fair enough -- but in the mean time, no more pushing for new GvR> modules in the core distribution (distutils excluded). Perhaps the right long-term solution (post-distutils) is to split Python into a core architected by Guido and a bazaar-style standard library maintained in a more apache-style. Jeremy
participants (6)
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Christopher Petrilli -
Greg Stein -
Greg Ward -
Guido van Rossum -
Jeremy Hylton -
M.-A. Lemburg