Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
Hi,
It's now official: Microsoft is acquiring GitHub.
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/ https://news.microsoft.com/2018/06/04/microsoft-to-acquire-github-for-7-5-bi...
I copy the news here since Python rely more and more on GitHub.
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything.
Victor
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything.
It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about moving issues to Github.
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything.
It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about moving issues to Github.
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay in business.
That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve integrations with other CI services?
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:06:28 -0700 Guido van Rossum guido@python.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything.
It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about moving issues to Github.
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay in business.
On 2018-06-04, 16:06 GMT, Guido van Rossum wrote:
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay in business.
Beacuse Microsoft is known to keep a money loosing venture around forever?
Best,
Matěj
I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses. If people are concerned with how Microsoft will manage GitHub, please talk to Microsoft or GitHub representative, and not gossip in python-dev.
If there is actual news or announcement of how GitHub will change, and how it will affect our workflow, we'll discuss in core-workflow.
Mariatta
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Antoine Pitrou solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve integrations with other CI services?
Regards
Antoine
ᐧ
Le 04/06/2018 à 19:49, Mariatta Wijaya a écrit :
I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses. If people are concerned with how Microsoft will manage GitHub, please talk to Microsoft or GitHub representative, and not gossip in python-dev.
What would talking to a MS or GH representative achieve? Of course they won't tell you if their company intend to disturb the current service in a few years.
1) being mere employees they are forbidden to make such statements that could hurt the company's bottom line;
2) they probably don't know themselves, since representatives aren't the ones making decisions, and there's no reason they would be notified months or years in advance.
So, if you talk to a representative, you will obviously get some reassuring PR speak (which might be sincere btw).
All we are left with is to speculate on where the company's interests lie. It's not unknown for products or services to endure stark changes after their provider is being bought by another entity. Microsoft themselves did it (see Skype), and of course others did as well.
Regards
Antoine.
Ethan Furman ethan@stoneleaf.us writes:
On 06/04/2018 10:49 AM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses.
We should have contingency plans and be prepared. More than one bought-out competitor has simply disappeared, or been hamstrung in its effectiveness.
Yes. So, because such contingency plans take quite some time to prepare, now *is* the time to be talking about it.
On 04.06.2018 21:46, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 06/04/2018 10:49 AM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses.
We should have contingency plans and be prepared. More than one bought-out competitor has simply disappeared, or been hamstrung in its effectiveness.
Actually, since M$ has closely integrated Python into VS, I'm expecting Guido to receive an acquisition offer next!
-- ~Ethan~
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On Mon, Jun 04, 2018 at 07:25:49PM +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote:
On 2018-06-04, 16:06 GMT, Guido van Rossum wrote:
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay in business.
Beacuse Microsoft is known to keep a money loosing venture around forever?
No, but Guido is right: neither is anyone else.
In that regard, Microsoft is probably *more* likely to keep pumping money into a failing business if it gives them a strategic advantage, compared to other investors with no long-term strategy other than "get aquired by Google/Microsoft/Oracle/Apple".
But on the other hand, Microsoft (or at least the bad old Microsoft of Bill Gates' days) has a long history of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" as policy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
(Not that Microsoft is the only big tech company that does/did this.)
Anyway, this is just all speculation at this point. In the short term, nothing changes, and it is too early to tell how it changes the long term.
Something that may change is the way they treat Github accounts, after all, MS is very much a sales driven company.
But then there's always the possibility to move to Gitlab as alternative (hosted or run on PSF VMs), so I would worry too much.
Do note, however, that the value in Github is not so much with the products they have, but with the data. Their databases know more about IT developer than anyone else and given that Github is put under the AI umbrella in MS should tell us something :-)
On 04.06.2018 19:02, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve integrations with other CI services?
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:06:28 -0700 Guido van Rossum guido@python.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything.
It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about moving issues to Github.
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay in business.
Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/mal%40egenix.com
On 2018-06-04, 23:38 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
No, but Guido is right: neither is anyone else.
In that regard, Microsoft is probably *more* likely to keep pumping money into a failing business if it gives them a strategic advantage, compared to other investors with no long-term strategy other than "get aquired by Google/Microsoft/Oracle/Apple".
Let me just to say here, that gitlab.com has export of repository together with all metadata. Just saying.
Matěj
On 5.6.2018 15:10, Matěj Cepl wrote:
On 2018-06-04, 23:38 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
No, but Guido is right: neither is anyone else.
In that regard, Microsoft is probably *more* likely to keep pumping money into a failing business if it gives them a strategic advantage, compared to other investors with no long-term strategy other than "get aquired by Google/Microsoft/Oracle/Apple".
Let me just to say here, that gitlab.com has export of repository together with all metadata. Just saying.
GitHub has: https://developer.github.com/changes/2018-05-24-user-migration-api/ but I'm not sure what exactly is there.
who owns the Data hosted on Github?
Github Author? Microsoft?
Martin ______________________________________________
________________________________ From: Python-Dev python-dev-bounces+mgainty=hotmail.com@python.org on behalf of M.-A. Lemburg mal@egenix.com Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 7:54 AM To: Antoine Pitrou; python-dev@python.org Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
Something that may change is the way they treat Github accounts, after all, MS is very much a sales driven company.
But then there's always the possibility to move to Gitlab as alternative (hosted or run on PSF VMs), so I would worry too much.
Do note, however, that the value in Github is not so much with the products they have, but with the data. Their databases know more about IT developer than anyone else and given that Github is put under the AI umbrella in MS should tell us something :-)
On 04.06.2018 19:02, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve integrations with other CI services?
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:06:28 -0700 Guido van Rossum guido@python.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything.
It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about moving issues to Github.
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay in business.
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________________________________________________________________________
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On 5 June 2018 at 23:10, Matěj Cepl mcepl@cepl.eu wrote:
On 2018-06-04, 23:38 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
No, but Guido is right: neither is anyone else.
In that regard, Microsoft is probably *more* likely to keep pumping money into a failing business if it gives them a strategic advantage, compared to other investors with no long-term strategy other than "get aquired by Google/Microsoft/Oracle/Apple".
Let me just to say here, that gitlab.com has export of repository together with all metadata. Just saying.
I was actually looking into this recently to see if the repository import feature could be used to run a regularly updated repository mirror that included all issues and PR comments in addition to the code, and noticed that one of the things that GitLab really requires to create a high quality export is for folks to have linked their GitLab instance accounts with their GitHub ones - if you don't already have that account mapping in place, then the import currently loses the ability to link users correctly with their comments and commits (We have a partial mapping due to folks adding their account names to bugs.python.org for CLA signing purposes, but not in a form that GitLab could actually use, since they need the API access authorisation).
That said, I personally don't think this changes much about our relationship with GitHub, except for the fact that we're now dealing with a large publicly traded multinational with relatively transparent financial reports rather than a smallish privately held company that was only financially accountable to the venture capitalists backing it. I'm more confident in my ability to predict Microsoft's business incentives based on the prevailing technology landscape than I am in my ability to predict the actions of a VC firm like Andreesen Horowitz :)
Cheers, Nick.
On 05.06.2018 17:28, Martin Gainty wrote:
who owns the Data hosted on Github?
Github Author? Microsoft?
Martin
https://help.github.com/articles/github-terms-of-service/#d-user-generated-c... :
"/You own content you create, but you allow us certain rights to it, so that we can display and share the content you post. You still have control over your content, and responsibility for it, and the rights you grant us are limited to those we need to provide the service. We have the right to remove content or close Accounts if we need to."/
*From:* Python-Dev python-dev-bounces+mgainty=hotmail.com@python.org on behalf of M.-A. Lemburg mal@egenix.com *Sent:* Tuesday, June 5, 2018 7:54 AM *To:* Antoine Pitrou; python-dev@python.org *Subject:* Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion Something that may change is the way they treat Github accounts, after all, MS is very much a sales driven company.
But then there's always the possibility to move to Gitlab as alternative (hosted or run on PSF VMs), so I would worry too much.
Do note, however, that the value in Github is not so much with the products they have, but with the data. Their databases know more about IT developer than anyone else and given that Github is put under the AI umbrella in MS should tell us something :-)
On 04.06.2018 19:02, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve integrations with other CI services?
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:06:28 -0700 Guido van Rossum guido@python.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou
solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess
that
it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything.
It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about moving issues to Github.
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns
about how it
would make enough money to stay in business.
Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
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-----Original Message----- From: Python-Dev <python-dev-bounces+tritium- list=sdamon.com@python.org> On Behalf Of Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 10:01 PM To: python-dev@python.org Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 b
On 05.06.2018 17:28, Martin Gainty wrote: who owns the Data hosted on Github?
Github Author? Microsoft?
Martin https://help.github.com/articles/github-terms-of-service/#d-user- generated-content :
"You own content you create, but you allow us certain rights to it, so
that we
can display and share the content you post. You still have control over
your
content, and responsibility for it, and the rights you grant us are
limited to
those we need to provide the service. We have the right to remove content or close Accounts if we need to."
And this is not likely to change under Microsoft. CodePlex had similar language, as does BitBucket, GitLab, and pretty much any service that hosts creative content that isnt a social network (and even then, some of them do too.)
From: Python-Dev <python-dev- bounces+mgainty=hotmail.com@python.org> on behalf of M.-A. Lemburg mal@egenix.com Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 7:54 AM To: Antoine Pitrou; python-dev@python.org Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
Something that may change is the way they treat Github accounts, after all, MS is very much a sales driven company.
But then there's always the possibility to move to Gitlab as alternative (hosted or run on PSF VMs), so I would worry too much.
Do note, however, that the value in Github is not so much with the products they have, but with the data. Their databases know more about IT developer than anyone else and given that Github is put under the AI umbrella in MS should tell us something :-)
On 04.06.2018 19:02, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the
ecosystem.
For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to
promote
(VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and
improve
integrations with other CI services?
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:06:28 -0700 Guido van Rossum guido@python.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou
solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just
guess that
it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft
is a big
company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also
confident that
nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to
worry about
anything.
It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is
no need to
worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the
debate about
moving issues to Github.
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if
GitHub had
remained independent there would have been be similar
concerns about how it
would make enough money to stay in business.
_
Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
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Unsubscribe:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python- dev/mal%40egenix.com
-- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com
Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Jun 05 2018)
Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting
Python Database Interfaces
... http://products.egenix.com/
Plone/Zope Database Interfaces
... http://zope.egenix.com/ ______________________________________________ __________________________
::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
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_ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python- dev/mgainty%40hotmail.com
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-- Regards, Ivan
On 2018-06-05, 15:03 GMT, Nick Coghlan wrote:
I was actually looking into this recently to see if the repository import feature could be used to run a regularly updated repository mirror that included all issues and PR comments in addition to the code,
Good, thank you very much. I didn’t, so I just worked out of the PR materials and documentation on their side. I am glad somebody did.
I'm more confident in my ability to predict Microsoft's business incentives based on the prevailing technology landscape than I am in my ability to predict the actions of a VC firm like Andreesen Horowitz :)
Perhaps. I still would be more comfortable, if we were thinking from time to time about alternatives in case Microsoft (or somebody else) returns to The Bad Old Ways. I hope it won't happen, but it might.
Best,
Matěj
On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 at 02:09 Matěj Cepl mcepl@cepl.eu wrote:
On 2018-06-05, 15:03 GMT, Nick Coghlan wrote:
I was actually looking into this recently to see if the repository import feature could be used to run a regularly updated repository mirror that included all issues and PR comments in addition to the code,
Good, thank you very much. I didn’t, so I just worked out of the PR materials and documentation on their side. I am glad somebody did.
I'm more confident in my ability to predict Microsoft's business incentives based on the prevailing technology landscape than I am in my ability to predict the actions of a VC firm like Andreesen Horowitz :)
Perhaps. I still would be more comfortable, if we were thinking from time to time about alternatives in case Microsoft (or somebody else) returns to The Bad Old Ways. I hope it won't happen, but it might.
Backing up the git repo is not terribly troublesome because you just need to to it regularly by cron job. Plus since git is distributed we have copies of that repo all over the place and you can verify integrity through the commit hashes, so even without an official backup we have a ton of unofficial backups. :)
As for the PR data, that could be done by recording every webhook event from our repo if someone wanted to. Then you could reconstruct things by essentially replaying the log of events. There are also probably more structured ways to do it as well if people cared.
But the key thing is someone has to take the time and effort to set something up. I'm personally not planning to put in the effort since I think there's a massively bigger chance we will switch hosts again rather than GitHub deciding to shut off data access with no data export feature or lead time such that we have to craft our own solution and we can't do it fast enough to prevent the loss of data (and I don't think doing this ahead of time for an eventual migration is worth it either as any platform we move to might have its own migration support, etc.). IOW I ain't worried, but I think everyone assumed that for me. :)
On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 7:03 PM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote:
On 05.06.2018 17:28, Martin Gainty wrote:
who owns the Data hosted on Github?
Github Author? Microsoft?
Martin
https://help.github.com/articles/github-terms-of-service/#d-user-generated-c... :
"*You own content you create, but you allow us certain rights to it, so that we can display and share the content you post. You still have control over your content, and responsibility for it, and the rights you grant us are limited to those we need to provide the service.*
Is the “service” they provide (and what it needs) allowed to change over time, so that the rights granted can expand? The definition of “service” in their document is—
1. The “Service” refers to the applications, software, products, and services provided by GitHub.
—Chris
* We have the right to remove content or close Accounts if we need to."*
*From:* Python-Dev python-dev-bounces+mgainty=hotmail.com@python.org python-dev-bounces+mgainty=hotmail.com@python.org on behalf of M.-A. Lemburg mal@egenix.com mal@egenix.com *Sent:* Tuesday, June 5, 2018 7:54 AM *To:* Antoine Pitrou; python-dev@python.org *Subject:* Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
Something that may change is the way they treat Github accounts, after all, MS is very much a sales driven company.
But then there's always the possibility to move to Gitlab as alternative (hosted or run on PSF VMs), so I would worry too much.
Do note, however, that the value in Github is not so much with the products they have, but with the data. Their databases know more about IT developer than anyone else and given that Github is put under the AI umbrella in MS should tell us something :-)
On 04.06.2018 19:02, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve integrations with other CI services?
Regards
Antoine.
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:06:28 -0700 Guido van Rossum guido@python.org guido@python.org wrote:
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou solipsis@pitrou.net
solipsis@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner vstinner@redhat.com vstinner@redhat.com wrote:
At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything.
It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about moving issues to Github.
I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about
how it
would make enough money to stay in business.
Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
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Unsubscribe:
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Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Jun 05 2018)
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On Wed, Jun 06, 2018 at 05:59:17PM -0700, Chris Jerdonek wrote:
Is the “service” they provide (and what it needs) allowed to change over time, so that the rights granted can expand?
Of course it can change. And they might not even need to give us notice. But that's no different from any other service provider, including your ISP, your phone provider, your electricity provider, etc.
If we're to be concerned about changes to terms and conditions, we should be equally concerned about Google, Apple, Amazon, Red Hat, Oracle etc. We shouldn't be uniquely or especially concerned just because Microsoft has purchased Github. Nothing has changed.
Github (the old Github, before being sold) were not "the Good Guys", and Microsoft is not "the Bad Guys". Github were a commercial entity, run by venture capitalists only in it for the money, with a brogrammer culture that was (allegedly) highly toxic to women. If Github didn't try to make a grab for their users' content, it was because they made a commercial decision that stealing the IP for a thousand versions of "leftpad" for Node.js was not worth the harm they would do to their business, not because they're nice guys who wouldn't do that.
https://medium.com/@caspervonb/the-internet-is-at-the-mercy-of-a-handful-of-...
I know that suspicion and fear of Microsoft's bona fides is a long running tradition in FOSS circles, but Microsoft is subject to the same sorts of commercial realities as any other corporation: there is a limit to how evil they can be for the LOLs and still stay in business. They are no more likely to grab users' content than Github were, and for the same reasons.
Actually, probably LESS likely. The sort of companies who are Microsoft's important customers, the ones with deep pockets willing to pay for services like Github's, are if anything even more cognisant of the value and importance of so-called Intellectual Property than the average FOSS user, and far more likely to be defensive over some hosting company trying to claim rights to their IP.
(Personally, I'm more concerned about MS trying to become another Google, profiling us -- all the better to sell our personal data -- by matching up our Github identies with everything we do on the internet. But again, that's not unique to Microsoft. Every second website, these days, wants to follow your every click and watch everything you do. But that's a rant for another day.)
We shouldn't be uniquely or especially concerned just because Microsoft has purchased Github. Nothing has changed.
Exactly — but this change HAS made people think about an issue that we should have already been thinking about.
At the end of the day, anyone, or any project, would be well served by having a plan for potential loss of valuable data.
And the no brainer on that is : don’t have only one copy in one place.
That’s why my family photos are on my hard drive, and a backup drive, and an online backup service.
My house could burn down, so I don’t want everything there. The backup service could change its conditions, go out of business, or simply have a technical failure — so I don’t want everything there, either.
Any service could change or fail. Period.
So we shouldn’t want valuable information about Python development only in gitHub.
I don’t know how hard it is to backup / mirror an entire repo — but it sure seems like a good idea.
-CHB
On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 3:33 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal via Python-Dev python-dev@python.org wrote:
Any service could change or fail. Period.
So we shouldn’t want valuable information about Python development only in gitHub.
I don’t know how hard it is to backup / mirror an entire repo — but it sure seems like a good idea.
There are two separate concerns here:
1) How do we get a full copy of all of CPython and its change history?
2) How do we get all the non-code content - issues, pull requests, comments?
The first one is trivially easy. *Everyone* who has a clone of the repository [1] has a full copy of the code and all history, updated every time 'git pull' is run.
The second one depends on GitHub's exporting facilities; but it also depends on a definition of what's important. Maybe the PSF doesn't care if people's comments at the bottoms of commits are lost (not to be confused with commit messages themselves, which are part of the repo proper), so it wouldn't matter if they're lost. Or maybe it's important to have the contents of such commits, but it's okay to credit them to an email address rather than linking to an actual username. Or whatever. Unlike with the code/history repo, an imperfect export is still of partial value.
ChrisA
[1] Barring shallow clones, but most people don't do those
Backing up GitHub data has been brought up since the time we migrated to GitHub, and being tracked here: https://github.com/pytho n/core-workflow/issues/20
TL;DR We'll be using GitHub's new Migrations API https://developer.github.com/v3/migrations/orgs/ to download archived GitHub data of CPython. Ernest is helping us get set up with daily backups of CPython repo to be stored within The PSF's infrastructure.
Mariatta
On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Chris Angelico rosuav@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 3:33 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal via Python-Dev python-dev@python.org wrote:
Any service could change or fail. Period.
So we shouldn’t want valuable information about Python development only in gitHub.
I don’t know how hard it is to backup / mirror an entire repo — but it sure seems like a good idea.
There are two separate concerns here:
How do we get a full copy of all of CPython and its change history?
How do we get all the non-code content - issues, pull requests,
comments?
The first one is trivially easy. *Everyone* who has a clone of the repository [1] has a full copy of the code and all history, updated every time 'git pull' is run.
The second one depends on GitHub's exporting facilities; but it also depends on a definition of what's important. Maybe the PSF doesn't care if people's comments at the bottoms of commits are lost (not to be confused with commit messages themselves, which are part of the repo proper), so it wouldn't matter if they're lost. Or maybe it's important to have the contents of such commits, but it's okay to credit them to an email address rather than linking to an actual username. Or whatever. Unlike with the code/history repo, an imperfect export is still of partial value.
ChrisA
[1] Barring shallow clones, but most people don't do those _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/ mariatta.wijaya%40gmail.com
ᐧ
On 13 June 2018 at 04:47, Mariatta Wijaya mariatta.wijaya@gmail.com wrote:
Backing up GitHub data has been brought up since the time we migrated to GitHub, and being tracked here: https://github.com/pytho n/core-workflow/issues/20
TL;DR We'll be using GitHub's new Migrations API https://developer.github.com/v3/migrations/orgs/ to download archived GitHub data of CPython. Ernest is helping us get set up with daily backups of CPython repo to be stored within The PSF's infrastructure.
Nice!
Cheers, Nick.
participants (19)
-
Alex Walters -
Antoine Pitrou -
Antoine Pitrou -
Ben Finney -
Brett Cannon -
Chris Angelico -
Chris Barker - NOAA Federal -
Chris Jerdonek -
Ethan Furman -
Guido van Rossum -
Ivan Pozdeev -
M.-A. Lemburg -
Mariatta Wijaya -
Martin Gainty -
Matěj Cepl -
Miro Hrončok -
Nick Coghlan -
Steven D'Aprano -
Victor Stinner