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MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins]...

Guido van Rossum

8 Dec 2006 8 Dec '06

3:01 p.m.

I looked through the python.org web stats (as I usually do when preparing for a keynote) and discovered that /ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.msi is by far the top download -- 271,971 hits, more than 5x the next one, /ftp/python/2.5/Python-2.5.tgz (47,898 hits). Are these numbers real? (The byte counts suggest they are.) What could cause this dramatic popularity of Python on Windows? Does some vendor have an auto-install hook that installs Python whenever someone opens up their new computer? Or have we just hit the jackpot? -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

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Scott Dial

8 Dec 8 Dec

3:13 p.m.

New subject: MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Guido van Rossum wrote:

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What could cause this dramatic popularity of Python on Windows?

You should ask yourself: 1) Where else can people grab Python on Windows? 2) Where else can people grab Python for [every other operating system]? Most distros are kind enough to provide their own mirror, I would say that easily accounts for the discrepancy since I am not aware of any other place to grab a windows install. -- Scott Dial scott@scottdial.com scodial@cs.indiana.edu

Kurt B. Kaiser

5:46 p.m.

New subject: MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Scott Dial writes:

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You should ask yourself: 1) Where else can people grab Python on Windows? 2) Where else can people grab Python for [every other operating system]?

Most distros are kind enough to provide their own mirror, I would say that easily accounts for the discrepancy since I am not aware of any other place to grab a windows install.

I think that's right, Linux and BSD distros (and no doubt OS X) provide their own packaging of Python, while hackers sync with svn. But it's also fair to say that most users run Windows, and as Python goes mainstream, which seems to be the case lately, we should see an even greater proportion of Windows/everthing_else Python installations. -- KBK

Thomas Heller

3:18 p.m.

New subject: MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Guido van Rossum schrieb:

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I looked through the python.org web stats (as I usually do when preparing for a keynote) and discovered that /ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.msi is by far the top download -- 271,971 hits, more than 5x the next one, /ftp/python/2.5/Python-2.5.tgz (47,898 hits). Are these numbers real? (The byte counts suggest they are.)

You probably have to add the downloads for /ftp/python/2.5/Python-2.5.tar.bz2 (31,492 hits) to the last number. Also interesting are the hits for 64-bit windows Pythons: /ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.amd64.msi (23192 hits) /ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.ia64.msi (22523 hits)

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What could cause this dramatic popularity of Python on Windows?

Have the ratios changed against past figures (too lazy to look them up now)?

...

Does some vendor have an auto-install hook that installs Python whenever someone opens up their new computer? Or have we just hit the jackpot?

Thomas

"Martin v. Löwis"

7:11 p.m.

New subject: MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Thomas Heller schrieb:

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Also interesting are the hits for 64-bit windows Pythons:

/ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.amd64.msi (23192 hits) /ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.ia64.msi (22523 hits)

But maybe misleading, as well. People just don't understand Win64: the hardware guy told them they have "64-bits", and now download everything with "64" in its name - just to see the message that this file isn't for their operating system.

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Have the ratios changed against past figures (too lazy to look them up now)?

They did, but also because the statistics weren't updated correctly until recently. Regards, Martin

"Martin v. Löwis"

7:24 p.m.

New subject: MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Martin v. Löwis schrieb:

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Have the ratios changed against past figures (too lazy to look them up now)?

They did, but also because the statistics weren't updated correctly until recently.

Qualifying a bit further: the last month that apparently had nearly correct statistics before September was February. We had these numbers for the MSI file: Jan: 2.4.2.msi 202046 Feb: 2.4.2.msi 209234 Sep: 2.4.3.msi 155689 2.5.msi 120817 Oct: 2.4.3.msi 36479 2.4.4.msi 38526 2.5.msi 271971 Nov: 2.4.4.msi 45696 2.5.msi 224247 Dec: 2.5.msi 55521 (Dec 8, 6:36 CET) Regards, Martin

"Martin v. Löwis"

6:59 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Guido van Rossum schrieb:

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I looked through the python.org web stats (as I usually do when preparing for a keynote) and discovered that /ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.msi is by far the top download -- 271,971 hits, more than 5x the next one, /ftp/python/2.5/Python-2.5.tgz (47,898 hits). Are these numbers real?

They should be. Thomas and I fixed the counting during the Google sprint. The log files are now processed once a day; before, they were rotated only once a week, and the web server stopped logging when the partition storing the log files were full (which frequently happened). So if you look at the statistics before August, you see that some days don't have any accesses counted - the stats can't be trusted in the period between the move away from creosote and the Google sprint.

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(The byte counts suggest they are.) What could cause this dramatic popularity of Python on Windows? Does some vendor have an auto-install hook that installs Python whenever someone opens up their new computer? Or have we just hit the jackpot?

I think this is Python's popularity. One factor is ready availability: "normal" users don't build Python from source. So Windows users download it from python.org, everybody else gets the binaries from the OS vendor. They come with the Linux distribution, they come with OS X, and they come with Solaris. Many of these people don't build Python themselves (and they can't, because they'll also have to rebuild mod_python, the Python subversion modules, etc). So the 50,000 source downloads are just from people who want to see the cutting egde, when their "regular" sources only provide 2.4 binaries (say). Also, Python 2.5 is relatively new. After some time, people will have local copies of the 2.5 MSI file, and don't redownload if they install on a new machine. Regards, Martin

Mike Krell

7:27 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

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I think this is Python's popularity. One factor is ready availability: "normal" users don't build Python from source. So Windows users download it from python.org, everybody else gets the binaries from the OS vendor.

Another factor is that the ActiveState ActivePython distribution for Windows isn't available for 2.5 yet. Early adopters have even fewer places to go than normal. Mike

Jordan Greenberg

7:52 p.m.

New subject: MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Guido van Rossum wrote:

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Or have we just hit the jackpot?

Hi all, I've been lurking the list for a while (fun to know what you py-devs are up too!) but for this I have to speak up and give congratulations. You're all doing amazing work, and I think thats being reflected in these numbers. I know I recommend it to all of my friends, who are bogged down trying to learn Java or Perl, and they've all been amazed by how much of a joy it is to work in Python. So, if you have hit the jackpot, it's truly deserved. Congratulations again, and keep up the good work! -Jordan Greenberg

Jim Jewett

11 Dec 11 Dec

10:57 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

On 12/8/06, Guido van Rossum wrote:

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/ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.msi is by far the top download -- 271,971 hits, more than 5x the next one, /ftp/python/2.5/Python-2.5.tgz (47,898 hits). Are these numbers real?

Why wouldn't it be? Most computers are running windows. Most people running some other operating system can get python from that someplace else -- and have to if they don't want to compile it themselves. (But recompiling isn't usually a barrier, as compilers usually come with the system.) Most people running windows cannot compile python. I'm not sure there even *is* a free way to do it; mingw may well compile additional extensions, but it can't compile the main python tree. There have been recipes for using free MSVC versions, but I'm not sure whether any work today. -jJ

Guido van Rossum

11:17 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

On 12/11/06, Jim Jewett wrote:

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On 12/8/06, Guido van Rossum wrote:

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/ftp/python/2.5/python-2.5.msi is by far the top download -- 271,971 hits, more than 5x the next one, /ftp/python/2.5/Python-2.5.tgz (47,898 hits). Are these numbers real?

Why wouldn't it be?

Just because in the past the ratio of downloads for a particular version was always about 70% Windows vs. 30% source. Now it seems closer to 90/10. -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

Kurt B. Kaiser

12 Dec 12 Dec

5:47 a.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

"Guido van Rossum" writes:

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Just because in the past the ratio of downloads for a particular version was always about 70% Windows vs. 30% source. Now it seems closer to 90/10.

Going mainstream :-)) The Rails buzz seems to be jumping to Python lately. -- KBK

Steve Holden

1:53 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Kurt B. Kaiser wrote:

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"Guido van Rossum" writes:

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Just because in the past the ratio of downloads for a particular version was always about 70% Windows vs. 30% source. Now it seems closer to 90/10.

Going mainstream :-))

The Rails buzz seems to be jumping to Python lately.

Though of course it would be interesting to know the growth in absolute download count: if there have only been half the number of downloads then we aren't winning at all ;-) regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Fredrik Lundh

1:54 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x morethan all other files?!

Kurt B. Kaiser wrote:

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Going mainstream :-))

indeed. from what I can tell on my local market, we've "crossed the chasm" [1], and are seeing wider range of "pragmatists" adding Python to the tool chain.

...

The Rails buzz seems to be jumping to Python lately.

fwiw, the people I see pick up Python haven't even heard of Ruby or Rails (not every- one is doing web 2.0 stuff, after all). </F> 1) http://www.testing.com/writings/reviews/moore-chasm.html

Kurt B. Kaiser

4:03 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x morethan all other files?!

"Fredrik Lundh" writes:

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...
The Rails buzz seems to be jumping to Python lately.

fwiw, the people I see pick up Python haven't even heard of Ruby or Rails (not every- one is doing web 2.0 stuff, after all).

Yes, separate but related groups and issues. MIT's adopting Python in their introductory programs will drive other schools in our direction, I think. -- KBK

Guido van Rossum

4:37 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x morethan all other files?!

And I just found out (after everyone else probably :-) that YouTube is almost entirely written in Python. (And now I can rub shoulders with the developers since they're all Googlers now... :-) On 12/12/06, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote:

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"Fredrik Lundh" writes:

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...
The Rails buzz seems to be jumping to Python lately.

fwiw, the people I see pick up Python haven't even heard of Ruby or Rails (not every- one is doing web 2.0 stuff, after all).

Yes, separate but related groups and issues.

MIT's adopting Python in their introductory programs will drive other schools in our direction, I think.

-- KBK _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org

-- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

Simon Brunning

5:24 p.m.

New subject: [Python-checkins] MSI being downloaded 10x morethan all other files?!

On 12/12/06, Guido van Rossum wrote:

...

And I just found out (after everyone else probably :-) that YouTube is almost entirely written in Python. (And now I can rub shoulders with the developers since they're all Googlers now... :-)

That'll put to bed any "Does Python scale" discussions. Cheers, Simon B

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"Martin v. Löwis"
Fredrik Lundh
Guido van Rossum
Jim Jewett
Jordan Greenberg
Kurt B. Kaiser
Mike Krell
Scott Dial
Simon Brunning
Steve Holden
Thomas Heller

MSI being downloaded 10x more than all other files?!

Scott Dial

Jordan Greenberg

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