Migrating to Python 3: the python 3 install issue
On python-list, Chris Warrick reported (thread title): "The Nikola project is deprecating Python 2.7 (+2.x/3.x user survey results)" This is for the November release, with 2.7 dropped in the next version next year. (Nikola is a cross-platform unicode-based app for building static websites and blogs from user-written templates and (marked-up) text files. https://getnikola.com/ ) Since users do not write code to use Nikola, the survey was about installation of Python 3. At present, 1/2 have 3.x only, 1/3 2.x only, and 1/6 both. (So much for 'nobody uses 3.x for real work'.) Most of the 2.x only people are able and willing to install 3.x. https://getnikola.com/blog/env-survey-results-and-the-future-of-python-27.ht... When Stefan Behnel asked why they did not drop the hard-to-maintain 2.7 version once they ported to 3.3, Chris answered
We did it now because it all started with frustration with 2.7 [0]. Also, doing it back in 2012/2013 would be problematic, because back then not all Linux distros had an easily installable Python 3 stack (and RHEL 7 still doesn’t have one in the default repos)
[0]: http://ralsina.me/weblog/posts/floss-decision-making-in-action.html
-- Terry Jan Reedy
Thanks for the info, Terry! Glad people are realizing that Python 3 is now available widely enough that applications can seriously consider dropping Python 2 support now. I still think 2016 is going to see this happen more and more once the Linux distros make their switches to Python 3. On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 at 15:16 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On python-list, Chris Warrick reported (thread title): "The Nikola project is deprecating Python 2.7 (+2.x/3.x user survey results)" This is for the November release, with 2.7 dropped in the next version next year. (Nikola is a cross-platform unicode-based app for building static websites and blogs from user-written templates and (marked-up) text files. https://getnikola.com/ )
Since users do not write code to use Nikola, the survey was about installation of Python 3. At present, 1/2 have 3.x only, 1/3 2.x only, and 1/6 both. (So much for 'nobody uses 3.x for real work'.) Most of the 2.x only people are able and willing to install 3.x.
https://getnikola.com/blog/env-survey-results-and-the-future-of-python-27.ht...
When Stefan Behnel asked why they did not drop the hard-to-maintain 2.7 version once they ported to 3.3, Chris answered
We did it now because it all started with frustration with 2.7 [0]. Also, doing it back in 2012/2013 would be problematic, because back then not all Linux distros had an easily installable Python 3 stack (and RHEL 7 still doesn’t have one in the default repos)
[0]: http://ralsina.me/weblog/posts/floss-decision-making-in-action.html
-- Terry Jan Reedy
_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org
Fedora 23 (scheduled for the end of this month) will only come with python3 (/usr/bin/python3), no python2 (nor python), *in the base system*. Obviously, it will be possible to install Python 2 to install applications not compatible with Python 3 yet. Note: the current development version is Fedora 23, Fedora 24 is the next one. Ubuntu is still working on a similar change. Victor 2015-10-03 0:55 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon <brett@python.org>:
Thanks for the info, Terry! Glad people are realizing that Python 3 is now available widely enough that applications can seriously consider dropping Python 2 support now. I still think 2016 is going to see this happen more and more once the Linux distros make their switches to Python 3.
On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 at 15:16 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On python-list, Chris Warrick reported (thread title): "The Nikola project is deprecating Python 2.7 (+2.x/3.x user survey results)" This is for the November release, with 2.7 dropped in the next version next year. (Nikola is a cross-platform unicode-based app for building static websites and blogs from user-written templates and (marked-up) text files. https://getnikola.com/ )
Since users do not write code to use Nikola, the survey was about installation of Python 3. At present, 1/2 have 3.x only, 1/3 2.x only, and 1/6 both. (So much for 'nobody uses 3.x for real work'.) Most of the 2.x only people are able and willing to install 3.x.
https://getnikola.com/blog/env-survey-results-and-the-future-of-python-27.ht...
When Stefan Behnel asked why they did not drop the hard-to-maintain 2.7 version once they ported to 3.3, Chris answered
We did it now because it all started with frustration with 2.7 [0]. Also, doing it back in 2012/2013 would be problematic, because back then not all Linux distros had an easily installable Python 3 stack (and RHEL 7 still doesn’t have one in the default repos)
[0]: http://ralsina.me/weblog/posts/floss-decision-making-in-action.html
-- Terry Jan Reedy
_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org
_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/victor.stinner%40gmail.co...
(grr, again i sent a draft by mistake, sorry about that) Fedora 23 (scheduled for the end of this month) will only come with python3 (/usr/bin/python3), no python2 (nor python), *in the base system*. Obviously, it will be possible to install Python 2 to install applications not compatible with Python 3 yet. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/23/ChangeSet#Python_3_as_the_Default... https://twitter.com/_solotraveller/status/645559393627435008 Ubuntu is also working on a similar change. I don't know when it will happen. Victor 2015-10-03 0:55 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon <brett@python.org>:
Thanks for the info, Terry! Glad people are realizing that Python 3 is now available widely enough that applications can seriously consider dropping Python 2 support now. I still think 2016 is going to see this happen more and more once the Linux distros make their switches to Python 3.
On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 at 15:16 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On python-list, Chris Warrick reported (thread title): "The Nikola project is deprecating Python 2.7 (+2.x/3.x user survey results)" This is for the November release, with 2.7 dropped in the next version next year. (Nikola is a cross-platform unicode-based app for building static websites and blogs from user-written templates and (marked-up) text files. https://getnikola.com/ )
Since users do not write code to use Nikola, the survey was about installation of Python 3. At present, 1/2 have 3.x only, 1/3 2.x only, and 1/6 both. (So much for 'nobody uses 3.x for real work'.) Most of the 2.x only people are able and willing to install 3.x.
https://getnikola.com/blog/env-survey-results-and-the-future-of-python-27.ht...
When Stefan Behnel asked why they did not drop the hard-to-maintain 2.7 version once they ported to 3.3, Chris answered
We did it now because it all started with frustration with 2.7 [0]. Also, doing it back in 2012/2013 would be problematic, because back then not all Linux distros had an easily installable Python 3 stack (and RHEL 7 still doesn’t have one in the default repos)
[0]: http://ralsina.me/weblog/posts/floss-decision-making-in-action.html
-- Terry Jan Reedy
_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org
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On 3 October 2015 at 09:57, Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:
On Oct 03, 2015, at 01:05 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
Ubuntu is also working on a similar change. I don't know when it will happen.
For the desktop, we're aiming for 16.04 LTS.
So close! Out of curiousity, I dug up the original Arch announcement linked from PEP 394: https://www.archlinux.org/news/python-is-now-python-3/ 'twas a mere 5 years ago :) Cheers, Nick. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
Great, that this finally happens. I think this was a silent revolution, initiated by nagging people, distros and larger companies about how mega-out Python2 is, until they finally started to believe it ;-) cheers -- Chris [since 2012 on Py3, charging an extra for back-porting] On 03/10/15 01:05, Victor Stinner wrote:
(grr, again i sent a draft by mistake, sorry about that)
Fedora 23 (scheduled for the end of this month) will only come with python3 (/usr/bin/python3), no python2 (nor python), *in the base system*. Obviously, it will be possible to install Python 2 to install applications not compatible with Python 3 yet.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/23/ChangeSet#Python_3_as_the_Default... https://twitter.com/_solotraveller/status/645559393627435008
Ubuntu is also working on a similar change. I don't know when it will happen.
Victor
2015-10-03 0:55 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon <brett@python.org>:
Thanks for the info, Terry! Glad people are realizing that Python 3 is now available widely enough that applications can seriously consider dropping Python 2 support now. I still think 2016 is going to see this happen more and more once the Linux distros make their switches to Python 3.
On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 at 15:16 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On python-list, Chris Warrick reported (thread title): "The Nikola project is deprecating Python 2.7 (+2.x/3.x user survey results)" This is for the November release, with 2.7 dropped in the next version next year. (Nikola is a cross-platform unicode-based app for building static websites and blogs from user-written templates and (marked-up) text files. https://getnikola.com/ )
Since users do not write code to use Nikola, the survey was about installation of Python 3. At present, 1/2 have 3.x only, 1/3 2.x only, and 1/6 both. (So much for 'nobody uses 3.x for real work'.) Most of the 2.x only people are able and willing to install 3.x.
https://getnikola.com/blog/env-survey-results-and-the-future-of-python-27.ht...
When Stefan Behnel asked why they did not drop the hard-to-maintain 2.7 version once they ported to 3.3, Chris answered
We did it now because it all started with frustration with 2.7 [0]. Also, doing it back in 2012/2013 would be problematic, because back then not all Linux distros had an easily installable Python 3 stack (and RHEL 7 still doesn’t have one in the default repos)
[0]: http://ralsina.me/weblog/posts/floss-decision-making-in-action.html
-- Terry Jan Reedy
_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org
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-- Christian Tismer :^) tismer@stackless.com Software Consulting : http://www.stackless.com/ Karl-Liebknecht-Str. 121 : https://github.com/PySide 14482 Potsdam : GPG key -> 0xFB7BEE0E phone +49 173 24 18 776 fax +49 (30) 700143-0023
On 4 October 2015 at 03:49, Christian Tismer <tismer@stackless.com> wrote:
Great, that this finally happens.
I think this was a silent revolution, initiated by nagging people, distros and larger companies about how mega-out Python2 is, until they finally started to believe it ;-)
While that was part of it (at least initially), the main impediment on the Linux front turned out to be the sheer amount of work involved, and the number of different projects impacted (without even counting the upstream projects that had already added Python 3 support of their own accord). This meant the employee time investment from Canonical, Red Hat and anyone else that contributed to distro package porting wasn't just in development effort - a fair bit of it was in the politics of getting primarily C/C++ projects that happened to have some Python components to accept the migration patches (even while the developers and other users of those projects were still running Python 2 based distributions themselves), as well as in revising distro packaging policies to mandate Python 3 support for new projects. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
participants (6)
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Barry Warsaw -
Brett Cannon -
Christian Tismer -
Nick Coghlan -
Terry Reedy -
Victor Stinner