Why does the Contributor Agreement need my address?
I'm used to signing CLA's that require nothing beyond a name and a check box. When I went to sign the PSF Contributor Agreement so I can submit a PR for CPython, I was surprised to see that it wants my address. Why does the Python Software Foundation need this, especially when nobody else does? Joseph C. Sible
[Joseph C. Sible <josephcsible@gmail.com>
I'm used to signing CLA's that require nothing beyond a name and a check box. When I went to sign the PSF Contributor Agreement so I can submit a PR for CPython, I was surprised to see that it wants my address. Why does the Python Software Foundation need this, especially when nobody else does?
So that our marketing partners can deliver exciting consumer shopping opportunities directly to your front door ;-) Seriously, "nobody else does" shows you haven't looked much. For example, the first two I just looked at also require a mailing address: Apache CLA https://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf Android CLA https://cla.developers.google.com/clas/new?domain=DOMAIN_GOOGLE&kind=KIND_INDIVIDUAL So I'll guess that projects big enough to hire actual lawyers require an address. As to why they want an address, you'll have to ask a lawyer! There aren't any on this list. So, if you really want to pursue this, I suggest you direct the question instead to the Python Software Foundation, which deals with the project's legalities: psf@python.org
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:47 PM Tim Peters <tim.peters@gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously, "nobody else does" shows you haven't looked much. For example, the first two I just looked at also require a mailing address:
Apache CLA https://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
Android CLA https://cla.developers.google.com/clas/new?domain=DOMAIN_GOOGLE&kind=KIND_INDIVIDUAL
So I'll guess that projects big enough to hire actual lawyers require an address.
Fair. I guess I should have said "nobody else that I've ever contributed code upstream to does". (I suppose I have mostly contributed to smaller, less formal projects in the past.)
As to why they want an address, you'll have to ask a lawyer! There aren't any on this list. So, if you really want to pursue this, I suggest you direct the question instead to the Python Software Foundation, which deals with the project's legalities:
psf@python.org
Thanks, this is useful information. Joseph C. Sible
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 5:24 AM Joseph C. Sible <josephcsible@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:47 PM Tim Peters <tim.peters@gmail.com> wrote: [...]
As to why they want an address, you'll have to ask a lawyer! There aren't any on this list. So, if you really want to pursue this, I suggest you direct the question instead to the Python Software Foundation, which deals with the project's legalities:
psf@python.org
Thanks, this is useful information.
<https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/steve%40holdenweb.com>
There's a reason he was called "the timbot" ;-)
On 9/8/18 11:46 PM, Tim Peters wrote:
[Joseph C. Sible <josephcsible@gmail.com>
I'm used to signing CLA's that require nothing beyond a name and a check box. When I went to sign the PSF Contributor Agreement so I can submit a PR for CPython, I was surprised to see that it wants my address. Why does the Python Software Foundation need this, especially when nobody else does? So that our marketing partners can deliver exciting consumer shopping opportunities directly to your front door ;-)
Seriously, "nobody else does" shows you haven't looked much. For example, the first two I just looked at also require a mailing address:
Apache CLA https://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
Android CLA https://cla.developers.google.com/clas/new?domain=DOMAIN_GOOGLE&kind=KIND_INDIVIDUAL
So I'll guess that projects big enough to hire actual lawyers require an address. As to why they want an address, you'll have to ask a lawyer! There aren't any on this list. So, if you really want to pursue this, I suggest you direct the question instead to the Python Software Foundation, which deals with the project's legalities:
psf@python.org _ While I am not a lawyer, or even play on on TV, I can imagine that for such an agreement to really be enforced, they need to know who actually is agreeing to it. Just a name isn't a unique a unique identifier, so more information is needed.
-- Richard Damon
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 23:11:27 -0400 "Joseph C. Sible" <josephcsible@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm used to signing CLA's that require nothing beyond a name and a check box. When I went to sign the PSF Contributor Agreement so I can submit a PR for CPython, I was surprised to see that it wants my address. Why does the Python Software Foundation need this, especially when nobody else does?
I don't think I've ever received anything from the PSF by postal mail, so if you don't want to give out your postal address, or simply don't have one, then you can probably submit a fake one. (I've never given that advice of course, you've invented it all by yourself ;-)) Regards Antoine.
On 9/9/2018 1:49 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 23:11:27 -0400 "Joseph C. Sible" <josephcsible@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm used to signing CLA's that require nothing beyond a name and a check box. When I went to sign the PSF Contributor Agreement so I can submit a PR for CPython, I was surprised to see that it wants my address. Why does the Python Software Foundation need this, especially when nobody else does?
I presume others are correct that an address helps as an identifier. Python is important enough to be a possible target of copyright lawsuits. The purpose of collecting CLA's for all non-trivial contributions is to try to avoid lawsuits and make them easier to defend against should one happen anyway. Part of the CLA is informing contributors that we only want code that can be legally contributed, and contributors agreeing that they will offer such.
I don't think I've ever received anything from the PSF by postal mail, so if you don't want to give out your postal address, or simply don't have one, then you can probably submit a fake one.
DON'T DO THIS, anyone. If you were to be a defendant or witness in a lawsuit, expect to be asked "Did you reside at this address when you signed the CLA?" Lying under oath and admitting that you lied when signing are both unpleasant options. -- Terry Jan Reedy
On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 15:15:36 -0400 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On 9/9/2018 1:49 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 23:11:27 -0400 "Joseph C. Sible" <josephcsible@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm used to signing CLA's that require nothing beyond a name and a check box. When I went to sign the PSF Contributor Agreement so I can submit a PR for CPython, I was surprised to see that it wants my address. Why does the Python Software Foundation need this, especially when nobody else does?
I presume others are correct that an address helps as an identifier.
It probably does, though it's hardly perfect. Mostly it can serve as a contact point, but these days an e-mail address might be more durable than a postal address (and it's probably a much better identifier too).
Part of the CLA is informing contributors that we only want code that can be legally contributed, and contributors agreeing that they will offer such.
You don't need someone's postal address to inform them, if you're not sending them any paper material (which the PSF doesn't, AFAIR). Asking a contributor their postal address does not make them better informed.
I don't think I've ever received anything from the PSF by postal mail, so if you don't want to give out your postal address, or simply don't have one, then you can probably submit a fake one.
DON'T DO THIS, anyone. If you were to be a defendant or witness in a lawsuit, expect to be asked "Did you reside at this address when you signed the CLA?"
I'm not sure why anyone would ask that question. Residing somewhere doesn't have much to do with copyright issues (except when determining which national law should apply, and perhaps even not). And a postal address doesn't have to be where you reside, either : people can very well have their postal address at a friend's or relative's while not living there, and they can very well give different postal addresses for different purposes (just like you can give a different e-mail address to your professional and personal contacts). Besides, even in a dysfunctional legal system, I'd be surprised if a Python copyright lawsuit would involve asking all past Python contributors (the thousands of them, assuming they can all be successfully contacted and brought to the court) whether they did really live at the postal address they once declared on their CLA. But, yes, perhaps better to leave the entry blank or write "irrelevant", if the PSF accepts that :-) Regards Antoine.
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 12:59 Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone would ask that question.
because if they can discredit a witness, they will. Matt
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On 9/9/18 3:57 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On 9/9/2018 1:49 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 23:11:27 -0400 "Joseph C. Sible" <josephcsible@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm used to signing CLA's that require nothing beyond a name and a check box. When I went to sign the PSF Contributor Agreement so I can submit a PR for CPython, I was surprised to see that it wants my address. Why does the Python Software Foundation need this, especially when nobody else does? I presume others are correct that an address helps as an identifier. It probably does, though it's hardly perfect. Mostly it can serve as a contact point, but these days an e-mail address might be more durable
On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 15:15:36 -0400 Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote: than a postal address (and it's probably a much better identifier too).
A Name + Address is a practically perfect identifier, as most people have a specific legal address of residence and at that address it is very unlikely two people have identical legal names. It is this legal address and legal name that people should be using for these sorts of legal documents. Government tend to have a vested interest in keeping track of legal addresses as this tends to have implications in things like taxes, so piggy backing on this identification can help with identification for other purposes. There also tends to be official government documents that can track back your 'official' address over time, so confirming that you are the Joe Smith from 15 Main ST, Anytown USA, is possible. Try to think how you could legally prove you were or were not the owner of joe.smith@example.com 10 years ago, where example.com is some major free email providers. -- Richard Damon
participants (7)
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Antoine Pitrou -
Joseph C. Sible -
Matt Arcidy -
Richard Damon -
Steve Holden -
Terry Reedy -
Tim Peters