I originally raised this a metric age or four ago, and promptly forgot about it - http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-August/048444.html The concensus seemed to be "ok, remove them, but carefully!" I've started doing this, and will post a patch on SF when it's done. Before I do this, does anyone want to scream? (see also http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-December/058555.html ) -- Anthony Baxter It's never too late to have a happy childhood.