On 12/20/2010 8:38 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

Given the changing dynamics of the desktop launch menus to better support direct access as an alternative to hierarchical navigation, would it be reasonable to consider including the major version number in the start menu shortcut names?

I would very much like that. I once changed some the entries but bugfix or later alpha/beta/gamma/final installation reset everything.

(Question is mainly for Martin, obviously, but I'm also curious if anyone else has encountered the same thing)

Now that I have multiple versions of Python installed (for development testing), I have *three* identical 'IDLE (Python GUI)' entries in the left-hand frequently-used programs column of the Start panel. This is really useless and therefore a waste of space. -- Terry Jan Reedy

Given the changing dynamics of the desktop launch menus to better support direct access as an alternative to hierarchical navigation, would it be reasonable to consider including the major version number in the start menu shortcut names?

(Question is mainly for Martin, obviously, but I'm also curious if anyone else has encountered the same thing)

I can't see anything wrong with that, but I'm terrible with wording. So somebody would have to spell out the exact wording that each of the start menu items should have. In doing so, also take into consideration that some people install 32-bit and 64-bit versions simultaneously. Regards, Martin

On 12/21/2010 7:01 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:36 PM, "Martin v. Löwis"<martin@v.loewis.de> wrote:

...

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Given the changing dynamics of the desktop launch menus to better support direct access as an alternative to hierarchical navigation, would it be reasonable to consider including the major version number in the start menu shortcut names?

(Question is mainly for Martin, obviously, but I'm also curious if anyone else has encountered the same thing)

I can't see anything wrong with that, but I'm terrible with wording. So somebody would have to spell out the exact wording that each of the start menu items should have. In doing so, also take into consideration that some people install 32-bit and 64-bit versions simultaneously.

I put my initial proposal (reproduced below) at http://bugs.python.org/issue10747. I'll let this thread run a bit and see if there are any substantial improvements suggested, or valid objections raised (I tried to pre-empt the length issue by pushing the typically least important information to the end). I also considered using the x86 and x64 abbreviations, but being explicit seemed clearer.

Shortcuts currently installed: - Python (command line) - Python Manuals - Module Docs - IDLE (Python GUI) - Uninstall Python

Initial proposal for 32 bit builds: - Python 3.2 (command line - 32 bit) - Python 3.2 Manuals - Python 3.2 Docs Server (pydoc - 32 bit) Python 3.2 PyDoc Server (32 bit) is shorter. But since pydoc.py is has no 'bitness',

PyDoc Server (Python 3.2 - 32 bit) is more in line with below

- IDLE (Python 3.2 GUI - 32 bit)

I think of IDLE as an IDE, not a GUI, but IDLE IDE does not work too well. In any case, it also has no 'bitness'. IDLE GUI (Python 3.2 - 32 bit) -- Terry Jan Reedy

Microsoft recommendations: Avoid putting a version number in a program name unless that is how users normally refer to your program. Put only program shortcuts on the Start menu. Don't put shortcuts to the following items on the Start menu: - Program uninstallers. Users access uninstallers through the Programs control panel item. - Help files. Users access Help topics directly from your program. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511447.aspx I think it's fine for Python to use a version number and to put links to the manual in the Start Menu (since Python doesn't have a Help menu). But the uninstall shortcut should go. I also don't think that "command line" should be used in the title. And why is the .CHM file called "Manuals"? Why the plural? When seeing this title I thought that maybe it's a link to the Doc directory. Most of the .CHM files that I have in my Start Menu are called "abc Documentation", and a couple "abc Users Manual". The help file it's also titled "Python v2.7 documentation" when opened, so maybe it should be renamed to "Python 3.2 Documentation".

Initial proposal for 32 bit builds: - Python 3.2 (command line - 32 bit) - Python 3.2 Manuals - Python 3.2 Docs Server (pydoc - 32 bit) - IDLE (Python 3.2 GUI - 32 bit) - Uninstall Python 3.2 (32 bit)

Initial proposal for 64 bit builds: - Python 3.2 (command line - 64 bit) - Python 3.2 Manuals - Python 3.2 Docs Server (pydoc - 64 bit) - IDLE (Python 3.2 GUI - 64 bit) - Uninstall Python 3.2 (64 bit)

On 12/22/2010 1:23 AM, Adal Chiriliuc wrote:

Microsoft recommendations:

Irrelevant.

Avoid putting a version number in a program name unless that is how users normally refer to your program.

Version numbers are the point of this issue, because people *do* have multiple version installed.

Put only program shortcuts on the Start menu. Don't put shortcuts to the following items on the Start menu: - Program uninstallers. Users access uninstallers through the Programs control panel item.

Many programs put them there where they are EASY to access and invoke. Control panel and add/remove programs are absolute slugs when it comes to starting up.

- Help files. Users access Help topics directly from your program.

Have you ever run the other items? IDLE has its own help. Control panel has no menu, and what help it does have is for its configuration dialog. \

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511447.aspx

I think it's fine for Python to use a version number and to put links to the manual in the Start Menu (since Python doesn't have a Help menu). But the uninstall shortcut should go.

I also don't think that "command line" should be used in the title.

And why is the .CHM file called "Manuals"? Why the plural?

Because there are several. When seeing

this title I thought that maybe it's a link to the Doc directory. Most of the .CHM files that I have in my Start Menu are called "abc Documentation", and a couple "abc Users Manual". The help file it's also titled "Python v2.7 documentation" when opened, so maybe it

That is only true of the 2.7 doc.

should be renamed to "Python 3.2 Documentation".

The 3.2 doc already is, at least on my system.

...

Initial proposal for 32 bit builds: - Python 3.2 (command line - 32 bit) - Python 3.2 Manuals - Python 3.2 Docs Server (pydoc - 32 bit) - IDLE (Python 3.2 GUI - 32 bit) - Uninstall Python 3.2 (32 bit)

Initial proposal for 64 bit builds: - Python 3.2 (command line - 64 bit) - Python 3.2 Manuals - Python 3.2 Docs Server (pydoc - 64 bit) - IDLE (Python 3.2 GUI - 64 bit) - Uninstall Python 3.2 (64 bit)

-- Terry Jan Reedy