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Antoine Pitrou

23 Feb 2011 23 Feb '11

3:58 p.m.

Hello, I think it was a slight mistake to remove the link to the issue tracker from the sidebar in the "core development" section. Dave Beazley just complained about it (http://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/40397577916661760) and I think it will probably confuse other people too. Could we add it back ? cheers Antoine.

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Giampaolo Rodolà

23 Feb 23 Feb

5:18 p.m.

+1, I often use that link as well. 2011/2/23 Antoine Pitrou :

...

Hello,

I think it was a slight mistake to remove the link to the issue tracker from the sidebar in the "core development" section. Dave Beazley just complained about it (http://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/40397577916661760) and I think it will probably confuse other people too. Could we add it back ?

cheers

Antoine.

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Brett Cannon

6:30 p.m.

I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on the website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists purely to not break pre-existing links. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 07:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

...

Hello,

I think it was a slight mistake to remove the link to the issue tracker from the sidebar in the "core development" section. Dave Beazley just complained about it (http://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/40397577916661760) and I think it will probably confuse other people too. Could we add it back ?

cheers

Antoine.

_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org

Antoine Pitrou

6:52 p.m.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote:

...

I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on the website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists purely to not break pre-existing links.

There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration"). Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know (and possibly fix it). Regards Antoine.

Brett Cannon

7:21 p.m.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:52, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

...

...
I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote: the

...
website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists purely to not break pre-existing links.

There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration"). Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know (and possibly fix it).

Those are all linked from the devguide in the Resources section. IOW that sidebar is in the index doc already.

...

Regards

Antoine. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org

Antoine Pitrou

7:53 p.m.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 11:21:58 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote:

...

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:52, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

...
...
I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote: the

...
website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists purely to not break pre-existing links.

There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration"). Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know (and possibly fix it).

Those are all linked from the devguide in the Resources section. IOW that sidebar is in the index doc already.

Yes, but I think it would be better if that link was more proeminent, either on python.org, or in the devguide. Currently it has become much less visible (you have to scroll down a page or two and hunt it in that section named "resources", assuming you know it is there at all). Of course, the Web site in general is not that good at presenting useful information first ;) Regards Antoine.

Brett Cannon

8:06 p.m.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:53, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

...

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 11:21:58 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote:

...
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:52, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

...
...
I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote: the

...
website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists purely to not break pre-existing links.

There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration"). Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know (and possibly fix it).

Those are all linked from the devguide in the Resources section. IOW that sidebar is in the index doc already.

Yes, but I think it would be better if that link was more proeminent, either on python.org, or in the devguide. Currently it has become much less visible (you have to scroll down a page or two and hunt it in that section named "resources", assuming you know it is there at all).

The Resources section can move up the page, or at least the issue tracker link. We are not talking about a page that is hard to edit (unlike python.org). -Brett

...

Of course, the Web site in general is not that good at presenting useful information first ;)

Regards

Antoine. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org

Brett Cannon

8:18 p.m.

I just added a Quick Links section to the devguide at the very top which is short and to the point. I also committed to pydotorg for python.org/dev/ to redirect to docs.python.org/devguide/, so this whole discussion is dealt with IMO. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:06, Brett Cannon wrote:

...

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:53, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

...
...
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:52, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

...
...
I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote: the

...
website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists purely to not break pre-existing links.

There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration"). Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know (and possibly fix it).

Those are all linked from the devguide in the Resources section. IOW

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 11:21:58 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote: that

...
sidebar is in the index doc already.

Yes, but I think it would be better if that link was more proeminent, either on python.org, or in the devguide. Currently it has become much less visible (you have to scroll down a page or two and hunt it in that section named "resources", assuming you know it is there at all).

The Resources section can move up the page, or at least the issue tracker link. We are not talking about a page that is hard to edit (unlike python.org).

-Brett

...
Of course, the Web site in general is not that good at presenting useful information first ;)

Regards

Antoine. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org

"Martin v. Löwis"

7:52 p.m.

Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:

...

I won't add the link back

Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide" link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the bug tracker. It's like adding the download page at the end of the tutorial - "you can get Python only if you read through this". Regards, Martin

Brett Cannon

8:05 p.m.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:52, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

...

Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:

...
I won't add the link back

Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide" link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the bug tracker.

But python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect for python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ has anything useful on it (which it does not). -Brett

...

It's like adding the download page at the end of the tutorial - "you can get Python only if you read through this".

Regards, Martin

James Y Knight

8:38 p.m.

On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:

...

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:52, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:

...
I won't add the link back

Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide" link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the bug tracker.

But python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect for python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ has anything useful on it (which it does not).

It seems unfortunate that the "Core Development" link now points directly to the devguide, since it unexpectedly breaks the navigation UI. It seemed rather more useful and consistent to have "Core Development" show the page with quick links. James

Brett Cannon

9 p.m.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:38, James Y Knight wrote:

...

On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:52, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

...
Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:

...
I won't add the link back

Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide" link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the bug tracker.

But python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect for python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ has anything useful on it (which it does not).

It seems unfortunate that the "Core Development" link now points directly to the devguide, since it unexpectedly breaks the navigation UI. It seemed rather more useful and consistent to have "Core Development" show the page with quick links.

Honestly, working on pydotorg is too bloody painful to even conceive of doing this purely to keep a single link on www.python.org.

James Y Knight

9:45 p.m.

On Feb 23, 2011, at 4:00 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:

...

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:38, James Y Knight wrote:

On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:

...
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:52, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:

...
I won't add the link back

Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide" link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the bug tracker.

But python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect for python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ has anything useful on it (which it does not).

It seems unfortunate that the "Core Development" link now points directly to the devguide, since it unexpectedly breaks the navigation UI. It seemed rather more useful and consistent to have "Core Development" show the page with quick links.

Honestly, working on pydotorg is too bloody painful to even conceive of doing this purely to keep a single link onwww.python.org.

Well, presumably at least 5 links: Devguide, PEP index, buildbot, issue tracker, link to source code browser. But sure, I'm just a user, I have no idea how hard it is to edit a page on pydotorg (and no, I don't really want to know). But I seriously cannot imagine it's so hard that you can't leave a page with a few links there, that had already been written! Note how clicking everything else in the left navbar makes useful links appear below the item, and the rest of the page keep the same theme/general layout. "Core Development" is now the unexpected exception to that UI consistency, and is less useful because of it. James

"Martin v. Löwis"

8:51 p.m.

...

But python.org/dev/ http://python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect for python.org/dev/ http://python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ http://python.org/dev/ has anything useful on it (which it does not).

Well, *I* ran into the problem because I hadn't reloaded the main page, and "Core Development" would still point to /dev. Now that I see that "Core Development" points to /devguide, I change my request to "please add the tracker link to the side menu of /devguide" (preferably along with a source repository link, and a linked title "More" going to #resources). As for redirects: it's certainly possible to redirect ^/dev$ to /devguide, leaving /dev..* alone. I can set this up if you want me to. Regards, Martin

Brett Cannon

8:58 p.m.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:51, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

...

...
But python.org/dev/ http://python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect for python.org/dev/ http://python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ http://python.org/dev/ has anything useful on it (which it does not).

Well, *I* ran into the problem because I hadn't reloaded the main page, and "Core Development" would still point to /dev.

Now that I see that "Core Development" points to /devguide, I change my request to "please add the tracker link to the side menu of /devguide" (preferably along with a source repository link, and a linked title "More" going to #resources).

I'll see what I can do. I added a Quick Links section at the very top of the main page so that can at least hold you over.

...

As for redirects: it's certainly possible to redirect ^/dev$ to /devguide, leaving /dev..* alone. I can set this up if you want me to.

Please. Or double-check what I put into pydotorg's redirect.txt will work properly.

"Martin v. Löwis"

11:40 p.m.

...

As for redirects: it's certainly possible to redirect ^/dev$ to /devguide, leaving /dev..* alone. I can set this up if you want me to.

Please. Or double-check what I put into pydotorg's redirect.txt will work properly.

What redirect.txt did you edit specifically? I have now changed redirects.conf, and it seems to work fine. Please let me know if there are any problems. Regards, Martin

Brett Cannon

11:42 p.m.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 15:40, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

...

...
As for redirects: it's certainly possible to redirect ^/dev$ to /devguide, leaving /dev..* alone. I can set this up if you want me

to.

...
Please. Or double-check what I put into pydotorg's redirect.txt will work properly.

What redirect.txt did you edit specifically?

It was beta.python.org/build/redirects.txt, but I went ahead and reverted the change since your solution works.

...

I have now changed redirects.conf, and it seems to work fine. Please let me know if there are any problems.

Works for me. Thanks, Martin!

"Martin v. Löwis"

24 Feb 24 Feb

6:43 a.m.

...

What redirect.txt did you edit specifically?

It was beta.python.org/build/redirects.txt http://beta.python.org/build/redirects.txt, but I went ahead and reverted the change since your solution works.

Ah. That file isn't used, AFAICT, so I now deleted it. If there are any other redirects that you want to see active, please let me know. Regards, Martin

Brett Cannon

6:42 p.m.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 22:43, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:

...

...
What redirect.txt did you edit specifically?

It was beta.python.org/build/redirects.txt http://beta.python.org/build/redirects.txt, but I went ahead and reverted the change since your solution works.

Ah. That file isn't used, AFAICT, so I now deleted it.

Are you sure? I added entries last week to that file and they worked when the website updated.

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If there are any other redirects that you want to see active, please let me know.

Personally I cared about all of the redirects that were in that file pertaining to /dev.

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"Martin v. Löwis"
Antoine Pitrou
Brett Cannon
Giampaolo Rodolà
James Y Knight

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