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In light of this, what I'd love to see (but sadly can't really help with, and am not optimistic about happening) is for:

- python to grow a decent, cross platform, package management system

- the standard library to actually shrink to a point where only libraries that are not released elsewhere are included

I'd be interested to know how many users of python also felt this way ;-)

I don't like the standard library to shrink. It's good that batteries are included.

I have mixed feelings. It is great that the batteries are included, but some batteries are showing their age or not maintained (who maintains IDLE? - does the calendar module really warrant being in the standard library? - imaplib is really not useful and IMAPClient which isn't in the standard library is much better [1]).

If a library is well maintained then there seems to be little point in moving it into the standard library as it may actually be harder to maintain, and if a library has no active developers then do we really want it in the standard library...

On the other hand there are some standard tools that a significant portion of the community use (Python Imaging Library and the PyWin32 extensions for example) that aren't in the standard library.

I think other developers have similar mixed feelings, or at least there are enough people on both sides of the fence that it is very hard to make changes. Perhaps this is the way it should be.

Batteries Included should not be interpreted as Soup and Nuts or the Kitchen Sink. There are a lot of good, no, outstanding libraries out there that are excellent candidates for the standard library. IMO, the standard library should include those things that would be truly helpful getting small projects started. Beyond that the needs of the project will likely be specialized to the point that one should be using libraries beyond the standard libraries. Heck, there are things I use frequently that I'd like to be "standard", but could be an imposition on the rest of the Python community. The last thing I want to see is a library so large that we spend time figuring out how to cull unwanted items. Beautiful Soup and html5lib are good, but specialized libraries, and not, IMO, of *general* interest. The same goes for lxml, which by the way, I like and have used. ...but it doesn't have to be in the standard library to be useful. I'd like to suggest that any new candidate for the standard library be discussed and then set aside for a cooling off period of ONE YEAR. If then folks can all agree the library is not only Goodness, but of general interest, especially for bootstrapping small projects, then take a vote, or the BDFL can decide. A key criteria should be, "Will the new library help small projects get started by providing basic capabilities without introducing a steep learning curve?" Larry