Mailman 3 September 2012 - Python-ideas

@classproperty, @abc.abstractclasspropery, etc.
by K. Richard Pixley Dec. 16, 2020

Dec. 16, 2020

There's a whole matrix of these and I'm wondering why the matrix is currently sparse rather than implementing them all. Or rather, why we can't stack them as: class foo(object): @classmethod @property def bar(cls, ...): ... Essentially the permutation are, I think: {'unadorned'|abc.abstract}{'normal'|static|class}{method|property|non-callable attribute}. concreteness implicit first arg type name comments {unadorned} {unadorned} method def foo(): exists … [View More]now {unadorned} {unadorned} property @property exists now {unadorned} {unadorned} non-callable attribute x = 2 exists now {unadorned} static method @staticmethod exists now {unadorned} static property @staticproperty proposing {unadorned} static non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary {unadorned} class method @classmethod exists now {unadorned} class property @classproperty or @classmethod;@property proposing {unadorned} class non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary abc.abstract {unadorned} method @abc.abstractmethod exists now abc.abstract {unadorned} property @abc.abstractproperty exists now abc.abstract {unadorned} non-callable attribute @abc.abstractattribute or @abc.abstract;@attribute proposing abc.abstract static method @abc.abstractstaticmethod exists now abc.abstract static property @abc.staticproperty proposing abc.abstract static non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary abc.abstract class method @abc.abstractclassmethod exists now abc.abstract class property @abc.abstractclassproperty proposing abc.abstract class non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary I think the meanings of the new ones are pretty straightforward, but in case they are not... @staticproperty - like @property only without an implicit first argument. Allows the property to be called directly from the class without requiring a throw-away instance. @classproperty - like @property, only the implicit first argument to the method is the class. Allows the property to be called directly from the class without requiring a throw-away instance. @abc.abstractattribute - a simple, non-callable variable that must be overridden in subclasses @abc.abstractstaticproperty - like @abc.abstractproperty only for @staticproperty @abc.abstractclassproperty - like @abc.abstractproperty only for @classproperty --rich [View Less]

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Specify number of items to allocate for array.array() constructor
by Sven Rahmann Feb. 21, 2020

Feb. 21, 2020

At the moment, the array module of the standard library allows to create arrays of different numeric types and to initialize them from an iterable (eg, another array). What's missing is the possiblity to specify the final size of the array (number of items), especially for large arrays. I'm thinking of suffix arrays (a text indexing data structure) for large texts, eg the human genome and its reverse complement (about 6 billion characters from the alphabet ACGT). The suffix array is a long int … [View More]

14 20

format specifier for "not bytes"
by Daniel Holth July 5, 2013

July 5, 2013

While I was implementing JSON-JWS (JSON web signatures), a format which in Python 3 has to go from bytes > unicode > bytes > unicode several times in its construction, I notice I wrote a lot of bugs: "sha256=b'abcdef1234'" When I meant to say: "sha256=abcdef1234" Everything worked perfectly on Python 3 because the verifying code also generated the sha256=b'abcdef1234' as a comparison. I would have never noticed at all unless I had tried to verify the Python 3 output with Python 2. … [View More]

8 17

hexdump
by anatoly techtonik April 29, 2013

April 29, 2013

Just an idea of usability fix for Python 3. hexdump module (function or bytes method is better) as simple, easy and intuitive way for dumping binary data when writing programs in Python. hexdump(bytes) - produce human readable dump of binary data, byte-by-byte representation, separated by space, 16-byte rows Rationale: 1. Debug. Generic binary data can't be output to console. A separate helper is needed to print, log or store its value in human readable format in database. This takes … [View More]time. 2. Usability. binascii is ugly: name is not intuitive any more, there are a lot of functions, and it is not clear how it relates to unicode. 3. Serialization. It is convenient to have format that can be displayed in a text editor. Simple tools encourage people to use them. Practical example: >>> print(b) � � � �� >>> b '\xe6\xb0\x08\x04\xe7\x9e\x08\x04\xe7\xbc\x08\x04\xe7\xd5\x08\x04\xe7\xe4\x08\x04\xe6\xb0\x08\x04\xe7\xf0\x08\x04\xe7\xff\x08\x04\xe8\x0b\x08\x04\xe8\x1a\x08\x04\xe6\xb0\x08\x04\xe6\xb0\x08\x04' >>> print(binascii.hexlify(data)) e6b00804e79e0804e7bc0804e7d50804e7e40804e6b00804e7f00804e7ff0804e80b0804e81a0804e6b00804e6b00804 >>> >>> data = hexdump(b) >>> print(data) E6 B0 08 04 E7 9E 08 04 E7 BC 08 04 E7 D5 08 04 E7 E4 08 04 E6 B0 08 04 E7 F0 08 04 E7 FF 08 04 E8 0B 08 04 E8 1A 08 04 E6 B0 08 04 E6 B0 08 04 >>> >>> # achieving the same output with binascii is overcomplicated >>> data_lines = [binascii.hexlify(b)[i:min(i+32, len(binascii.hexlify(b)))] for i in xrange(0, len(binascii.hexlify(b)), 32)] >>> data_lines = [' '.join(l[i:min(i+2, len(l))] for i in xrange(0, len(l), 2)).upper() for l in data_lines] >>> print('\n'.join(data_lines)) E6 B0 08 04 E7 9E 08 04 E7 BC 08 04 E7 D5 08 04 E7 E4 08 04 E6 B0 08 04 E7 F0 08 04 E7 FF 08 04 E8 0B 08 04 E8 1A 08 04 E6 B0 08 04 E6 B0 08 04 On the other side, getting rather useless binascii output from hexdump() is quite trivial: >>> data.replace(' ','').replace('\n','').lower() 'e6b00804e79e0804e7bc0804e7d50804e7e40804e6b00804e7f00804e7ff0804e80b0804e81a0804e6b00804e6b00804' But more practical, for example, would be counting offset from hexdump: >>> print( ''.join( '%05x: %s\n' % (i*16,l) for i,l in enumerate(hexdump(b).split('\n')))) Etc. Conclusion: By providing better building blocks on basic level Python will become a better tool for more useful tasks. References: [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2340319/python-3-1-1-string-to-hex [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_dump -- anatoly t. [View Less]

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Yielding through context managers
by Joshua Bartlett Jan. 8, 2013

Jan. 8, 2013

I'd like to propose adding the ability for context managers to catch and handle control passing into and out of them via yield and generator.send() / generator.next(). For instance, class cd(object): def __init__(self, path): self.inner_path = path def __enter__(self): self.outer_path = os.getcwd() os.chdir(self.inner_path) def __exit__(self, exc_type, exc_val, exc_tb): os.chdir(self.outer_path) def __yield__(self): self.inner_path = … [View More]

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i18n and Python tracebacks
by Andre Roberge Oct. 28, 2012

Oct. 28, 2012

I think it would be a good idea if Python tracebacks could be translated into languages other than English - and it would set a good example. For example, using French as my default local language, instead of >>> 1/0 Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero I might get something like >>> 1/0 Suivi d'erreur (appel le plus récent en dernier) : Fichier "<stdin>", à la … [View More]

9 15

Re: [Python-ideas] Cofunctions - Back to Basics
by Mark Shannon Oct. 20, 2012

Oct. 20, 2012

Greg Ewing wrote: > Mark Shannon wrote: > >> Why not have proper co-routines, instead of hacked-up generators? > > What do you mean by a "proper coroutine"? > A parallel, non-concurrent, thread of execution. It should be able to transfer control from arbitrary places in execution, not within generators. Stackless provides coroutines. Greenlets are also coroutines (I think). Lua has them, and is implemented in ANSI C, so it can be done portably. See: http://www.jucs.… [View More]

9 25

asyncore: included batteries don't fit
by chrysn Oct. 18, 2012

Oct. 18, 2012

hello python-ideas, i'd like to start discussion about the state of asyncore/asynchat's adaption in the python standard library, with the intention of finding a roadmap for how to improve things, and of kicking off and coordinating implementations. here's the problem (as previously described in [issue15978] and redirected here, with some additions): the asyncore module would be much more useful if it were well integrated in the standard library. in particular, it should be supported by: * … [View More]subprocess * BaseHTTPServer / http.server (and thus, socketserver) * urllib2 / urllib, http.client * probably many other network libraries except smtpd, which already uses asyncore * third party libraries (if stdlib leads the way, the ecosystem will follow; eg pyserial) without widespread asyncore support, it is not possible to easily integrate different servers and services with each other; with asyncore support, it's just a matter of creating the objects and entering the main loop. (eg, a http server for controlling a serial device, with a telnet-like debugging interface). some examples of the changes required: * the socketserver documents that it would like to have such a framework ("Future work: [...] Standard framework for select-based multiplexing"). due to the nature of socketserver based implementations (blocking reads), we can't just "add glue so it works", but there could be extensions so that implementations can be ported to asynchronous socketservers. i've done if for a particular case (ported SimpleHTTPServer, but it's a mess of monkey-patching and intermediate StringIOs). * for subprocess, there's a bunch of recipies at [1]. * pyserial (not standard library, but might as well become) can be ported quite easily [2]. this touches several modules whose implementations can be handled independently from each other; i'd implement some of them myself. terry.reedy redirected me from the issue tracker to this list, hoping for controversy and alternatives. if you'd like to discuss, throw in questions, and we'll find a solution. if you'd think talk is cheap, i can try to work out first sketches. python already has batteries for nonblocking operation included, and i say it's doing it right -- let's just make sure the batteries fit in the other gadgets! yours truly chrysn [1] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576957-asynchronous-subprocess-using-as… [2] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3559321&group_id=46487&atid… [issue15978] http://bugs.python.org/issue15978 -- Es ist nicht deine Schuld, dass die Welt ist, wie sie ist -- es wär' nur deine Schuld, wenn sie so bleibt. (You are not to blame for the state of the world, but you would be if that state persisted.) -- Die Ärzte [View Less]

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Python as a tool to download stuff for bootstrapping
by anatoly techtonik Oct. 15, 2012

Oct. 15, 2012

This one is practical. I am looking at NaCl SDK download page: https://developers.google.com/native-client/sdk/download "you need Python installed", "download SDK update utility" What makes me sad that update utility is a Python script in a zip file - nacl_sdk.zip which includes shell script and a .bat file for launching this Python script. This makes me kind of sad. You have Python installed. Why can't you just crossplatformly do: mkdir nacl cd nacl python -m urllib get http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/nativeclient-mirror/nacl/nacl_sdk/u… python update_sdk.py

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Cofunctions PEP - Revision 4
by Greg Ewing Oct. 13, 2012

Oct. 13, 2012

Here's an updated version of the PEP reflecting my recent suggestions on how to eliminate 'codef'. PEP: XXX Title: Cofunctions Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing(a)canterbury.ac.nz> Status: Draft Type: Standards Track Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 13-Feb-2009 Python-Version: 3.x Post-History: Abstract ======== A syntax is proposed for defining and calling a special type of generator called a 'cofunction'. It is designed to provide a … [View More]streamlined way of writing generator-based coroutines, and allow the early detection of certain kinds of error that are easily made when writing such code, which otherwise tend to cause hard-to-diagnose symptoms. This proposal builds on the 'yield from' mechanism described in PEP 380, and describes some of the semantics of cofunctions in terms of it. However, it would be possible to define and implement cofunctions independently of PEP 380 if so desired. Specification ============= Cofunction definitions ---------------------- A cofunction is a special kind of generator, distinguished by the presence of the keyword ``cocall`` (defined below) at least once in its body. It may also contain ``yield`` and/or ``yield from`` expressions, which behave as they do in other generators. From the outside, the distinguishing feature of a cofunction is that it cannot be called the same way as an ordinary function. An exception is raised if an ordinary call to a cofunction is attempted. Cocalls ------- Calls from one cofunction to another are made by marking the call with a new keyword ``cocall``. The expression :: cocall f(*args, **kwds) is evaluated by first checking whether the object ``f`` implements a ``__cocall__`` method. If it does, the cocall expression is equivalent to :: yield from f.__cocall__(*args, **kwds) except that the object returned by __cocall__ is expected to be an iterator, so the step of calling iter() on it is skipped. If ``f`` does not have a ``__cocall__`` method, or the ``__cocall__`` method returns ``NotImplemented``, then the cocall expression is treated as an ordinary call, and the ``__call__`` method of ``f`` is invoked. Objects which implement __cocall__ are expected to return an object obeying the iterator protocol. Cofunctions respond to __cocall__ the same way as ordinary generator functions respond to __call__, i.e. by returning a generator-iterator. Certain objects that wrap other callable objects, notably bound methods, will be given __cocall__ implementations that delegate to the underlying object. Grammar ------- The full syntax of a cocall expression is described by the following grammar lines: :: atom: cocall | <existing alternatives for atom> cocall: 'cocall' atom cotrailer* '(' [arglist] ')' cotrailer: '[' subscriptlist ']' | '.' NAME Note that this syntax allows cocalls to methods and elements of sequences or mappings to be expressed naturally. For example, the following are valid: :: y = cocall self.foo(x) y = cocall funcdict[key](x) y = cocall a.b.c[i].d(x) Also note that the final calling parentheses are mandatory, so that for example the following is invalid syntax: :: y = cocall f # INVALID New builtins, attributes and C API functions -------------------------------------------- To facilitate interfacing cofunctions with non-coroutine code, there will be a built-in function ``costart`` whose definition is equivalent to :: def costart(obj, *args, **kwds): try: m = obj.__cocall__ except AttributeError: result = NotImplemented else: result = m(*args, **kwds) if result is NotImplemented: raise TypeError("Object does not support cocall") return result There will also be a corresponding C API function :: PyObject *PyObject_CoCall(PyObject *obj, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwds) It is left unspecified for now whether a cofunction is a distinct type of object or, like a generator function, is simply a specially-marked function instance. If the latter, a read-only boolean attribute ``__iscofunction__`` should be provided to allow testing whether a given function object is a cofunction. Motivation and Rationale ======================== The ``yield from`` syntax is reasonably self-explanatory when used for the purpose of delegating part of the work of a generator to another function. It can also be used to good effect in the implementation of generator-based coroutines, but it reads somewhat awkwardly when used for that purpose, and tends to obscure the true intent of the code. Furthermore, using generators as coroutines is somewhat error-prone. If one forgets to use ``yield from`` when it should have been used, or uses it when it shouldn't have, the symptoms that result can be extremely obscure and confusing. Finally, sometimes there is a need for a function to be a coroutine even though it does not yield anything, and in these cases it is necessary to resort to kludges such as ``if 0: yield`` to force it to be a generator. The ``cocall`` construct address the first issue by making the syntax directly reflect the intent, that is, that the function being called forms part of a coroutine. The second issue is addressed by making it impossible to mix coroutine and non-coroutine code in ways that don't make sense. If the rules are violated, an exception is raised that points out exactly what and where the problem is. Lastly, the need for dummy yields is eliminated by making it possible for a cofunction to call both cofunctions and ordinary functions with the same syntax, so that an ordinary function can be used in place of a cofunction that yields zero times. Record of Discussion ==================== An earlier version of this proposal required a special keyword ``codef`` to be used in place of ``def`` when defining a cofunction, and disallowed calling an ordinary function using ``cocall``. However, it became evident that these features were not necessary, and the ``codef`` keyword was dropped in the interests of minimising the number of new keywords required. The use of a decorator instead of ``codef`` was also suggested, but the current proposal makes this unnecessary as well. It has been questioned whether some combination of decorators and functions could be used instead of a dedicated ``cocall`` syntax. While this might be possible, to achieve equivalent error-detecting power it would be necessary to write cofunction calls as something like :: yield from cocall(f)(args) making them even more verbose and inelegant than an unadorned ``yield from``. It is also not clear whether it is possible to achieve all of the benefits of the cocall syntax using this kind of approach. Prototype Implementation ======================== An implementation of an earlier version of this proposal in the form of patches to Python 3.1.2 can be found here: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/generators/cofunctions.h… If this version of the proposal is received favourably, the implementation will be updated to match. Copyright ========= This document has been placed in the public domain. .. Local Variables: mode: indented-text indent-tabs-mode: nil sentence-end-double-space: t fill-column: 70 coding: utf-8 End: [View Less]

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Visually confusable unicode characters in identifiers
by Oscar Benjamin Oct. 4, 2012

Oct. 4, 2012

Having just discovered that PEP 3131 [1] enables me to use greek letters to represent variables in equations, it was pointed out to me that it also allows visually confusable characters in identifiers [2]. When I previously read the PEP I thought that the normalisation process resolved these issues but now I see that the PEP leaves it as an open problem. I also previously thought that the PEP would be irrelevant if I was using ascii-only code but now I can see that if a GREEK CAPITAL LETTER … [View More]

19 38

Deprecate the round builtin
by Mike Graham Oct. 3, 2012

Oct. 3, 2012

The builtin round function is completely useless. I've never seen anyone use it constructively. Usually people using it are new programmers who are not comfortable with or aware of string formatting. Sometimes people use it to poorly replicate functionality that's implemented correctly in the decimal module. Mike

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Re: [Python-ideas] make decimal the default non-integer instead of float?
by Gregory P. Smith Oct. 1, 2012

Oct. 1, 2012

-cc: python-dev +cc: python-ideas On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 4:26 AM, Brett Cannon <brett(a)python.org> wrote: > > Does this mean we want to re-open the discussion about decimal constants? > > Last time this came up I think we decided that we wanted to wait for > > cdecimal (which is obviously here) and work out how to handle contexts, > the > > syntax, etc. > > Just to … [View More]

5 5

file API
by Mark Adam Sept. 28, 2012

Sept. 28, 2012

For some time now, I've wanted to suggest a better abstraction for the <file> type in Python. It currently uses an antiquated, low-level C-style interface for moving around in a file, with methods like tell() and seek(). But after attributes were introduced to Python, it seems like it should be re-evaluated. Let file-type have an attribute .pos for position. Now you can get rid of the seek() and tell() methods and manipulate the file pointer by the more standard and familiar … [View More]

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bdist naming scheme (compatibility tags) PEP
by Daniel Holth Sept. 26, 2012

Sept. 26, 2012

Today pypy and CPython's "setup.py bdist" generate the same filename but incompatible bdists. This makes it difficult to share both bdists in the same folder or index. Instead, they should generate different bdist filenames because one won't work with the other implementation. This PEP specifies a tagging system that includes enough information to decide whether a particular bdist is expected to work on a particular Python. Also at https://bitbucket.org/dholth/python-peps/raw/98cd36228c2e/pep-… [View More]

5 26

Regex support code as std lib functions
by Matt Chaput Sept. 25, 2012

Sept. 25, 2012

I'm not sure where regex is in its long march toward replacing re, but I just noticed something interesting: the regex module seems to include implementations of some useful functions to support its regular expression matching, e.g.: - Levenshtein distance - Unicode case folding Both of these would be useful as fast functions in the std lib. If/when regex replaces re, any possibility all the useful functions that support it could be added to the std lib in the appropriate modules as … [View More]

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Re: [Python-ideas] syntax to continue into the next subsequent except block
by V James Powell Sept. 20, 2012

Sept. 20, 2012

> I think it would be useful if there was a way to skip into the next except > block, perhaps with continue as I think it's currently always illegal to use > in an except block. I don't believe there's currently a way to do this. I would like to share that the original suggestion inspired me on the following (mis-)adventure. Cheers, V James Powell switch = lambda val: type('', (BaseException,), {'val': val})() case = lambda pred: type('', (type,), {'__subclasscheck__': … [View More]

1 0

syntax to continue into the next subsequent except block
by Paul Wiseman Sept. 20, 2012

Sept. 20, 2012

I think it would be useful if there was a way to skip into the next except block, perhaps with continue as I think it's currently always illegal to use in an except block. I don't believe there's currently a way to do this. This is my reasoning, often there's multiple reasons for exceptions that raise the same exception, as an example an IOError might get raised for lots of different reasons. If you want to handle one or several of these reasons, you have to catch all exceptions of this type, … [View More]

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Why is there no way to pass PYTHONPATH on the command line?
by Gerald Britton Sept. 19, 2012

Sept. 19, 2012

On 19 September 2012 17:36, Gerald Britton <gerald.britton at gmail.com <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas>> wrote: >* FYI This works in Windows:*>**>* C:\Python26>set PYTHONPATH=c:\temp & python*>* Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]*>* on*>* win32*>* Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.*>>>>* import sys*>>>>* sys.path*>* ['', 'c:\\… [View More]

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Re: [Python-ideas] Why is there no way to pass PYTHONPATH on the command line?
by Gerald Britton Sept. 19, 2012

Sept. 19, 2012

FYI This works in Windows: C:\Python26>set PYTHONPATH=c:\temp & python Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import sys >>> sys.path ['', 'c:\\temp', 'C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\python26.zip', 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C :\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', ' C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\… [View More]

2 1

Expansion of the range of small integers
by Serhiy Storchaka Sept. 17, 2012

Sept. 17, 2012

Now in the CPython small integer numbers from -5 up to 256 inclusive are preallocated at the start. It allows to reduce memory consumption and time of creation of the integers in this range. In particular this affects the speed of short enumerations. Increasing the range to the maximum (from -32767 to 32767 inclusive), we can speed up longer enumerations. Microbenchmarks: ./python -m timeit "for i in range(10000): pass" ./python -m timeit -s "a=[0]*10000" "for i, x in enumerate(a): … [View More]

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Optional kwarg making attrgetter & itemgetter always return a tuple
by Masklinn Sept. 15, 2012

Sept. 15, 2012

attrgetter and itemgetter are both very useful functions, but both have a significant pitfall if the arguments passed in are validated but not controlled: if receiving the arguments (list of attributes, keys or indexes) from an external source and *-applying it, if the external source passes a sequence of one element both functions will in turn return an element rather than a singleton (1-element tuple). This means such code, for instance code "slicing" a matrix of some sort to get only some … [View More]

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Re: [Python-ideas] Optional kwarg making attrgetter & itemgetter always return a tuple
by Oscar Benjamin Sept. 15, 2012

Sept. 15, 2012

On Sep 14, 2012 10:02 PM, "Jim Jewett" <jimjjewett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 9/14/12, Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > I can see why you would expect different behaviour here, though. I tend not > > to think of the functions in the operator module as convenience functions > > but as *efficient* nameable functions referring to operations that are > > normally invoked with a non-function syntax. Which is more convenient out &… [View More]

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Why is there no way to pass PYTHONPATH on the command line?
by Daniel Holth Sept. 14, 2012

Sept. 14, 2012

Why is there no way to pass PYTHONPATH on the command line? Oversight or intentional? Given path_item/something.py python -p path_item -c "import something; something.foo()" I am aware that the __main__.py behavior lessens the need for this significantly.

6 8

Memoryview tolist() method is misleading
by Stefan Krah Sept. 14, 2012

Sept. 14, 2012

Alexander Belopolsky wrote: > Consider this: > >>> memoryview(b'x').cast('B', ()).tolist() > 120 > > The return value of to list() is an int, not a list. That's because NumPy's tolist() does the same thing: >>> x = numpy.array(120, dtype='B') >>> x array(120, dtype=uint8) >>> x.tolist() 120 If you implement tolist() recursively like in _testbuffer.c and choose the zeroth dimension as the base case, you arrive at single elements. So at … [View More]

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