Mailman 3 December 2013 - Python-ideas

@classproperty, @abc.abstractclasspropery, etc.
by K. Richard Pixley 16 Dec '20

16 Dec '20

There's a whole matrix of these and I'm wondering why the matrix is currently sparse rather than implementing them all. Or rather, why we can't stack them as: class foo(object): @classmethod @property def bar(cls, ...): ... Essentially the permutation are, I think: {'unadorned'|abc.abstract}{'normal'|static|class}{method|property|non-callable attribute}. concreteness implicit first arg type name comments {unadorned} {unadorned} method def foo(): exists now {unadorned} {unadorned} property @property exists now {unadorned} {unadorned} non-callable attribute x = 2 exists now {unadorned} static method @staticmethod exists now {unadorned} static property @staticproperty proposing {unadorned} static non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary {unadorned} class method @classmethod exists now {unadorned} class property @classproperty or @classmethod;@property proposing {unadorned} class non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary abc.abstract {unadorned} method @abc.abstractmethod exists now abc.abstract {unadorned} property @abc.abstractproperty exists now abc.abstract {unadorned} non-callable attribute @abc.abstractattribute or @abc.abstract;@attribute proposing abc.abstract static method @abc.abstractstaticmethod exists now abc.abstract static property @abc.staticproperty proposing abc.abstract static non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary abc.abstract class method @abc.abstractclassmethod exists now abc.abstract class property @abc.abstractclassproperty proposing abc.abstract class non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary I think the meanings of the new ones are pretty straightforward, but in case they are not... @staticproperty - like @property only without an implicit first argument. Allows the property to be called directly from the class without requiring a throw-away instance. @classproperty - like @property, only the implicit first argument to the method is the class. Allows the property to be called directly from the class without requiring a throw-away instance. @abc.abstractattribute - a simple, non-callable variable that must be overridden in subclasses @abc.abstractstaticproperty - like @abc.abstractproperty only for @staticproperty @abc.abstractclassproperty - like @abc.abstractproperty only for @classproperty --rich

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Specify number of items to allocate for array.array() constructor
by Sven Rahmann 22 Feb '20

22 Feb '20

At the moment, the array module of the standard library allows to create arrays of different numeric types and to initialize them from an iterable (eg, another array). What's missing is the possiblity to specify the final size of the array (number of items), especially for large arrays. I'm thinking of suffix arrays (a text indexing data structure) for large texts, eg the human genome and its reverse complement (about 6 billion characters from the alphabet ACGT). The suffix array is a long int array of the same size (8 bytes per number, so it occupies about 48 GB memory). At the moment I am extending an array in chunks of several million items at a time at a time, which is slow and not elegant. The function below also initializes each item in the array to a given value (0 by default). Is there a reason why there the array.array constructor does not allow to simply specify the number of items that should be allocated? (I do not really care about the contents.) Would this be a worthwhile addition to / modification of the array module? My suggestions is to modify array generation in such a way that you could pass an iterator (as now) as second argument, but if you pass a single integer value, it should be treated as the number of items to allocate. Here is my current workaround (which is slow): def filled_array(typecode, n, value=0, bsize=(1<<22)): """returns a new array with given typecode (eg, "l" for long int, as in the array module) with n entries, initialized to the given value (default 0) """ a = array.array(typecode, [value]*bsize) x = array.array(typecode) r = n while r >= bsize: x.extend(a) r -= bsize x.extend([value]*r) return x

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Implicit string literal concatenation considered harmful?
by Guido van Rossum 14 Mar '18

14 Mar '18

I just spent a few minutes staring at a bug caused by a missing comma -- I got a mysterious argument count error because instead of foo('a', 'b') I had written foo('a' 'b'). This is a fairly common mistake, and IIRC at Google we even had a lint rule against this (there was also a Python dialect used for some specific purpose where this was explicitly forbidden). Now, with modern compiler technology, we can (and in fact do) evaluate compile-time string literal concatenation with the '+' operator, so there's really no reason to support 'a' 'b' any more. (The reason was always rather flimsy; I copied it from C but the reason why it's needed there doesn't really apply to Python, as it is mostly useful inside macros.) Would it be reasonable to start deprecating this and eventually remove it from the language? -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)

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Re: [Python-ideas] Update the required C compiler for Windows to a supported version.
by Steve Dower 02 Mar '14

02 Mar '14

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Vernon D. Cole writes: > >> I cannot compile a Python extension module with any Microsoft compiler >> I can obtain. > > Your pain is understood, but it's not simple to address it. FWIW, I'm working on making the compiler easily obtainable. The VS 2008 link that was posted is unofficial, and could theoretically disappear at any time (I'm not in control of that), but the Windows SDK for Windows 7 and .NET 3.5 SP1 (http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3138) should be around for as long as Windows 7 is supported. The correct compiler (VC9) is included in this SDK, but unfortunately does not install the vcvarsall.bat file that distutils expects. (Though it's pretty simple to add one that will switch on %1 and call the correct vcvars(86|64|...).bat.) The SDK needed for Python 3.3 and 3.4 (VC10) is even worse - there are many files missing. I'm hoping we'll be able to set up some sort of downloadable package/tool that will fix this. While we'd obviously love to move CPython onto our latest compilers, it's simply not possible (for good reason). Python 3.4 is presumably locked to VC10, but hopefully 3.5 will be able to use whichever version is current when that decision is made. > The basic problem is that the ABI changes. Therefore it's going to require > a complete new set of *all* C extensions for Windows, and the duplication > of download links for all those extensions from quite a few different vendors > is likely to confuse a lot of users. Specifically, the CRT changes. The CRT is an interesting mess of data structures that are exposed in header files, which means while you can have multiple CRTs loaded, they cannot touch each other's data structures at all or things will go bad/crash, and there's no nice way to set it up to avoid this (my colleague who currently owns MSVCRT suggested a not-very-nice way to do it, but I don't think it's going to be reliable enough). Python's stable ABI helps, but does not solve this problem. The file APIs are the worst culprits. The layout of FILE* objects can and do change between CRT versions, and file descriptors are simply indices into an array of these objects that is exposed through macros rather than function calls. As a result, you cannot mix either FILE pointers or file descriptors between CRTs. The only safe option is to build with the matching CRT, and for MSVCRT, this means with the matching compiler. It's unfortunate, and the responsible teams are well aware of the limitation, but it's history at this point, so we have no choice but to work with it. Cheers, Steve

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while conditional in list comprehension ??
by Wolfgang Maier 21 Feb '14

21 Feb '14

Dear all, I guess this is so obvious that someone must have suggested it before: in list comprehensions you can currently exclude items based on the if conditional, e.g.: [n for n in range(1,1000) if n % 4 == 0] Why not extend this filtering by allowing a while statement in addition to if, as in: [n for n in range(1,1000) while n < 400] Trivial effect, I agree, in this example since you could achieve the same by using range(1,400), but I hope you get the point. This intuitively understandable extension would provide a big speed-up for sorted lists where processing all the input is unnecessary. Consider this: some_names=["Adam", "Andrew", "Arthur", "Bob", "Caroline","Lancelot"] # a sorted list of names [n for n in some_names if n.startswith("A")] # certainly gives a list of all names starting with A, but . [n for n in some_names while n.startswith("A")] # would have saved two comparisons Best, Wolfgang

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Re: [Python-ideas] os.architecture
by Chris Angelico 02 Jan '14

02 Jan '14

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:39 AM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> download('http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL2-2.0.1-win32-'+uname()[4])+'.zip') > > Nothing personal, but that code is awful. You're right, it's buggy because I didn't test it. Superfluous close parenthesis there. But my point is that the architecture is right there in the name, so you can save yourself the trouble and just use what comes from uname directly. ChrisA

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"maybe import"?
by Amber Yust 30 Dec '13

30 Dec '13

It's a fairly standard pattern to see things like this: try: import foo except ImportError: foo = None (and of course, variants with from...import et cetera). These can potentially add a lot of clutter to the imports section of a file, given that it requires 4 lines to do a conditional import. It seems like it'd be useful and clean to have a syntax that looked like this: maybe import foo from bar maybe import baz from qux maybe import quy as quz Where the behavior would essentially be as above - attempt to run the import normally, and in cases where the import fails, map the name to a value of None instead. Users who want a different behavior are still free to use the long-form syntax. A possibly variant might be to also only run the import if the name isn't already bound, so that you could do something like... from frobber_a maybe import frob as frobber from frobbler_b maybe import frobble as frobber from frobber_c maybe import frobit as frobber ...to potentially try different fallback options if the first choice for an interface provider isn't available.

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Re: [Python-ideas] os.architecture
by Chris Angelico 30 Dec '13

30 Dec '13

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:57 AM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Chris Angelico <rosuav(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:39 AM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> download('http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL2-2.0.1-win32-'+uname()[4])+'.zip') >>> >>> Nothing personal, but that code is awful. >> >> You're right, it's buggy because I didn't test it. Superfluous close >> parenthesis there. But my point is that the architecture is right >> there in the name, so you can save yourself the trouble and just use >> what comes from uname directly. > > I write code for aliens. They might be confused that x86 < x64. Who cares? You're building up a URL and going and downloading it. The user needn't even be aware of it. You're actually writing code for code, here. ChrisA

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os.architecture
by anatoly techtonik 30 Dec '13

30 Dec '13

if os.architecture == 32: download('http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL2-2.0.1-win32-x86.zip') else: download('http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL2-2.0.1-win32-x64.zip') ?

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Determine Windows version in platform module
by Giampaolo Rodola' 28 Dec '13

28 Dec '13

Today I was looking for a way to determine whether I was on Windows >= Vista and couldn't find anything so I came up with this [1]. That led me to think about platform module. Honestly I can't see the usefulness of it as it doesn't give you any usable API to figure out what platform version you're on. As such would something like [1] be acceptable for inclusion? [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12471772/what-is-better-way-of-getting-w… --- Giampaolo https://code.google.com/p/psutil/ https://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/ https://code.google.com/p/pysendfile/

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Python-ideas December 2013