Mailman 3 July 2016 - Python-ideas

@classproperty, @abc.abstractclasspropery, etc.
by K. Richard Pixley 16 Dec '20

16 Dec '20

There's a whole matrix of these and I'm wondering why the matrix is currently sparse rather than implementing them all. Or rather, why we can't stack them as: class foo(object): @classmethod @property def bar(cls, ...): ... Essentially the permutation are, I think: {'unadorned'|abc.abstract}{'normal'|static|class}{method|property|non-callable attribute}. concreteness implicit first arg type name comments {unadorned} {unadorned} method def foo(): exists now {unadorned} {unadorned} property @property exists now {unadorned} {unadorned} non-callable attribute x = 2 exists now {unadorned} static method @staticmethod exists now {unadorned} static property @staticproperty proposing {unadorned} static non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary {unadorned} class method @classmethod exists now {unadorned} class property @classproperty or @classmethod;@property proposing {unadorned} class non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary abc.abstract {unadorned} method @abc.abstractmethod exists now abc.abstract {unadorned} property @abc.abstractproperty exists now abc.abstract {unadorned} non-callable attribute @abc.abstractattribute or @abc.abstract;@attribute proposing abc.abstract static method @abc.abstractstaticmethod exists now abc.abstract static property @abc.staticproperty proposing abc.abstract static non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary abc.abstract class method @abc.abstractclassmethod exists now abc.abstract class property @abc.abstractclassproperty proposing abc.abstract class non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary I think the meanings of the new ones are pretty straightforward, but in case they are not... @staticproperty - like @property only without an implicit first argument. Allows the property to be called directly from the class without requiring a throw-away instance. @classproperty - like @property, only the implicit first argument to the method is the class. Allows the property to be called directly from the class without requiring a throw-away instance. @abc.abstractattribute - a simple, non-callable variable that must be overridden in subclasses @abc.abstractstaticproperty - like @abc.abstractproperty only for @staticproperty @abc.abstractclassproperty - like @abc.abstractproperty only for @classproperty --rich

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Specify number of items to allocate for array.array() constructor
by Sven Rahmann 21 Feb '20

21 Feb '20

At the moment, the array module of the standard library allows to create arrays of different numeric types and to initialize them from an iterable (eg, another array). What's missing is the possiblity to specify the final size of the array (number of items), especially for large arrays. I'm thinking of suffix arrays (a text indexing data structure) for large texts, eg the human genome and its reverse complement (about 6 billion characters from the alphabet ACGT). The suffix array is a long int array of the same size (8 bytes per number, so it occupies about 48 GB memory). At the moment I am extending an array in chunks of several million items at a time at a time, which is slow and not elegant. The function below also initializes each item in the array to a given value (0 by default). Is there a reason why there the array.array constructor does not allow to simply specify the number of items that should be allocated? (I do not really care about the contents.) Would this be a worthwhile addition to / modification of the array module? My suggestions is to modify array generation in such a way that you could pass an iterator (as now) as second argument, but if you pass a single integer value, it should be treated as the number of items to allocate. Here is my current workaround (which is slow): def filled_array(typecode, n, value=0, bsize=(1<<22)): """returns a new array with given typecode (eg, "l" for long int, as in the array module) with n entries, initialized to the given value (default 0) """ a = array.array(typecode, [value]*bsize) x = array.array(typecode) r = n while r >= bsize: x.extend(a) r -= bsize x.extend([value]*r) return x

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Implicit string literal concatenation considered harmful?
by Guido van Rossum 14 Mar '18

14 Mar '18

I just spent a few minutes staring at a bug caused by a missing comma -- I got a mysterious argument count error because instead of foo('a', 'b') I had written foo('a' 'b'). This is a fairly common mistake, and IIRC at Google we even had a lint rule against this (there was also a Python dialect used for some specific purpose where this was explicitly forbidden). Now, with modern compiler technology, we can (and in fact do) evaluate compile-time string literal concatenation with the '+' operator, so there's really no reason to support 'a' 'b' any more. (The reason was always rather flimsy; I copied it from C but the reason why it's needed there doesn't really apply to Python, as it is mostly useful inside macros.) Would it be reasonable to start deprecating this and eventually remove it from the language? -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)

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https://docs.python.org/fr/ ?
by Julien Palard 02 Feb '17

02 Feb '17

o/ The french translation of the Python Documentation [1][2] has translated 20% of the pageviews of docs.python.org. I think it's the right moment to push it do docs.python.org. So there's some questions ! And I'd like feedback. TL;DR (with my personal choices): - URL may be "http://docs.python.org/fr/" - For localized variations of languages we should use dash and lowercase like "docs.python.org/pt-br/" - po files may be hosted on the python's github - existing script to build doc may be patched to build translations - each translations may crosslink to others - untranslated strings may be visually marked as so I also opened: http://bugs.python.org/issue26546. # Chronology, dependencies The only blocking decision here is the URL, (also reviewing my patch ...), with those two, translated docs can be pushed to production, and the other steps can be discussed and applied one by one. # The URL ## CCTLD vs path vs subdomain I think we should use a variation of "docs.python.org/fr/" for simplicity and clarity. I think we should avoid using CCTLDs as they're sometime hard or near impossible to obtain (may cost a lot of time), also some are expensive, so it's time and money we clearly don't need to loose. Last possibility I see is to use a subdomain, like fr.docs.python.org or docs.fr.python.org but I don't think it's the role / responsibility of the sub-domain to do it. So I'm for docs.python.org/LANGUAGE_TAG/ (without moving current documentation inside a /en/). ## Language tag in path ### Dropping the default locale of a language I personally think we should not show the region in case it's redundant: so to use "fr" instead of "fr-FR", "de" instead of "de-DE", but keeping the possibility to use a locale code when it's not redundant like for "pt-br" or "de-AT" (German ('de') as used in Austria ('AT')). I think so because I don't think we'll have a lot of locale variations (like de-AT, fr-CH, fr-CA, ...) so it will be most of the time redundant (visually heavy, longer to type, longer to read) but we'll still need some locale (pt-BR typically). ### gettext VS IETF language tag format gettext goes by using an underscore between language and locale [3] and IETF goes by using a dash [4][5]. As sphinx is using gettext, and gettext uses underscore we may choose underscore too. But URLs are not here to leak the underlying implementation, and the IETF looks like to be the standard way to represent language tags. Also I visually prefer the dash over the underscore, so I'm for the dash here. ### Lower case vs upper case local tag RFC 5646 section-2.1 tells us language tags are not case sensitive, yet ISO3166-1 recommends that country codes (part of the language tag) be capitalized. I personally prefer the all-lowercase one as paths in URLs typically are lowercase. I searched for `inurl:"pt-br"` to see if I'm not too far away from the usage here and usage seems to agree with me, although there's some "pt-BR" in urls. # Where to host the translated files Currently we're hosting the *po* files in the afpy's (Francophone association for python) [6] github [1] but it may make sense to use (in the generation scripts) a more controlled / restricted clone in the python github, at least to have a better view of who can push on the documentation. We may want to choose between aggregating all translations under the same git repository but I don't feel it's useful. # How to Currently, a python script [7] is used to generate `docs.python.org`, I proposed a patch in [8] to make this script clone and build the french translation too, it's a simple and effective way, I don't think we need more ? Any idea welcome. In our side, we have a Makefile [12] to build the translated doc which is only a thin layer on top of the Sphinx Makefile. So my proposed patch to build scripts "just" delegate the build to our Makefile which itself delegate the hard work to the Sphinx Makefile. # Next ? ## Document how to translate Python I think I can (should) write a documentation on "how to start a Python doc translation project" and "how to migrate existing [9][10][11] python doc translation projects to docs.python.org" if french does goes docs.python.org because it may hopefully motivate people to do the same, and I think our structure is a nice way to do it (A Makefile to generate the doc, all versions translated, people mainly working on latest version, scripts to propagating translations to older version, etc...). ## Crosslinking between existing translations Once the translations are on `docs.python.org`, crosslinks may be established so people on a version can be aware of other version, and easily switch to them. I'm not a UI/UX man but I think we may have a select box right before the existing select box about version, on the top-left corner. Right before because it'll reflect the path: /fr/3.5/ -> [select box fr][select box 3.5]. ## Marking as "untranslated, you can help" the untranslated paragraphs The translations will always need work to follow upstream modifications: marking untranslated paragraphs as so may transform the "Oh they suck, this paragraph is not even translated :-(" to "Hey, nice I can help translating that !". There's an opened sphinx-doc ticket to do so [13] but I have not worked on it yet. As previously said I'm real bad at designing user interfaces, so I don't even visualize how I'd like it to be. [1] http://www.afpy.org/doc/python/3.5/ [2] https://github.com/afpy/python_doc_fr [3] https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Locale-Names.html [4] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5646 [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IETF_language_tag [6] http://www.afpy.org/ [7] https://github.com/python/docsbuild-scripts/ [8] http://bugs.python.org/issue26546 [9] http://docs.python.jp/3/ [10] https://github.com/python-doc-ja/python-doc-ja [11] http://docs.python.org.ar/tutorial/3/index.html [12] https://github.com/AFPy/python_doc_fr/blob/master/Makefile [13] https://github.com/sphinx-doc/sphinx/issues/1246 -- Julien Palard

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proposal: "python -m foo" should bind sys.modules['foo']
by Cameron Simpson 18 Jan '17

18 Jan '17

Hello all, This is a writeup of a proposal I floated here: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2015-August/694905.html last Sunday. If the response is positive I wish to write a PEP. Briefly, it is a natural expectation in users that the command: python -m module_name ... used to invoke modules in "main program" mode on the command line imported the module as "module_name". It does not, it imports it as "__main__". An import within the program of "module_name" makes a new instance of the module, which causes cognitive dissonance and has the side effect that now the program has two instances of the module. What I propose is that the above command line _should_ bind sys.modules['module_name'] as well as binding '__main__' as it does currently. I'm proposing that the python -m option have this effect (python pseudocode): % python -m module.name ... runs: # pseudocode, with values hardwired for clarity import sys M = new_empty_module(name='__main__', qualname='module.name') sys.modules['__main__'] = M sys.modules['module.name'] = M # load the module code from wherever (not necessarily a file - CPython # already must do this phase) M.execfile('/path/to/module/name.py') Specificly, this would have the following two changes to current practice: 1) the module is imported _once_, and bound to both its canonical name and also to __main__. 2) imported modules acquire a new attribute __qualname__ (analogous to the recent __qualname__ on functions). This is always the conanoical name of the module as resolved by the importer. For most modules __name__ will be the same as __qualname__, but for the "main" module __name__ will be '__main__'. This change has the following advantages: The current standard boilerplate: if __name__ == '__main__': ... invoke "main program" here ... continues to work unchanged. Importantly, if the program then issues "import module_name", it is already there and the existing instance is found and used. The thread referenced above outlines my most recent encounter with this and the trouble it caused me. Followup messages include some support for this proposed change, and some criticism. The critiquing article included some workarounds for this multiple module situation, but they were (1) somewhat dependent on modules coming from a file pathname and (2) cumbersome and require every end user to adopt these changes if affected by the situation. I'd like to avoid that. Cheers, Cameron Simpson <cs(a)zip.com.au> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw

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Importing public symbols and simultainiously privatizing them, is too noisy
by Rick Johnson 28 Dec '16

28 Dec '16

Has anyone else found this to be too syntactically noisy? from module import Foo as _Foo, bar as _bar That is horrifically noisy IMO. The problem is, how do we remove the noise without sacrificing intuitiveness? My first idea was to do this: from module import_private Foo, bar And while it's self explanatory, it's also too long. So i thought... from module _import Foo, bar I'm leaning more towards the latter, but i'm not loving it either. Any ideas?

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Consider adding clip or clamp function to math
by Neil Girdhar 13 Aug '16

13 Aug '16

It's common to want to clip (or clamp) a number to a range. This feature is commonly needed for both floating point numbers and integers: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9775731/clamping-floating-numbers-in-pyt… http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4092528/how-to-clamp-an-integer-to-some-… There are a few approaches: * use a couple ternary operators (e.g. https://github.com/scipy/scipy/pull/5944/files line 98, which generated a lot of discussion) * use a min/max construction, * call sorted on a list of the three numbers and pick out the first, or * use numpy.clip. Am I right that there is no *obvious* way to do this? If so, I suggest adding math.clip (or math.clamp) to the standard library that has the meaning: def clip(number, lower, upper): return lower if number < lower else upper if number > upper else number This would work for non-numeric types so long as the non-numeric types support comparison. It might also be worth adding assert lower < upper to catch some bugs. Best, Neil

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Addition to operator module: starcaller
by Daniel Spitz 06 Aug '16

06 Aug '16

Hello, I have run into a use case where I want to create a wrapper object that will star-unpack a sequence of arguments to pass to a function. Currently one way to construct this is to create a function: def starcaller(f): def wrapper(args): return f(*args) return wrapper Such a function feels simple enough, and specific enough to the language, that it would fit in well in the operator module of the standard library. We already have a similar representation of this functionality in itertools.starmap. Whereas the nested function implementation above will produce unpickleable objects (due to the closure), a straightforward c implementation will produce pickleable ones, making them useful for parallel applications. Thanks, Dan Spitz

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Sequence views
by Serhiy Storchaka 04 Aug '16

04 Aug '16

Maybe it's time to add a new module for sequence-specific functions (seqtools?). It should contain at least two classes or fabric functions: 1. A view that represents a sliced subsequence. Lazy equivalent of seq[start:end:step]. This feature is implemented in third-party module dataview [1]. 2. A view that represents a linear sequence as 2D array. Iterating this view emits non-intersecting chunks of the sequence. For example it can be used for representing the bytes object as a sequence of 1-byte bytes objects (as in 2.x), a generalized alternative to iterbytes() from PEP 467 [2]. Neither itertools nor collections modules look good place for these features, since they are not concrete classes and work only with sequences, not general iterables or iterators. On other side, mappingproxy and ChainMap look close, maybe new module should be oriented not on sequences, but on views. [1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/dataview [2] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0467

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proper naming of Enum members
by Ethan Furman 04 Aug '16

04 Aug '16

There are currently a few locations in the stdlib, such as http and socket, that are now using Enums to replace constants; those names are all upper-case -- those aren't the names I am speaking of. The names I am speaking of are those in brand-new enumerations where we have full control. As an example: class FederalHoliday(AutoNumberEnum): NewYear = "First day of the year.", 'absolute', JANUARY, 1 MartinLutherKingJr = "Birth of Civil Rights leader.", 'relative', JANUARY, MONDAY, 3 President = "Birth of George Washington", 'relative', FEBRUARY, MONDAY, 3 Memorial = "Memory of fallen soldiers", 'relative', MAY, MONDAY, 5 Independence = "Declaration of Independence", 'absolute', JULY, 4 Labor = "American Labor Movement", 'relative', SEPTEMBER, MONDAY, 1 Columbus = "Americas discovered", 'relative', OCTOBER, MONDAY, 2 Veterans = "Recognition of Armed Forces service", 'relative', NOVEMBER, 11, 1 Thanksgiving = "Day of Thanks", 'relative', NOVEMBER, THURSDAY, 4 Christmas = "Birth of Jesus Christ", 'absolute', DECEMBER, 25 def __init__(self, doc, type, month, day, occurance=None): self.__doc__ = doc self.type = type self.month = month self.day = day self.occurance = occurance def date(self, year): """ returns the observed date of the holiday for `year` """" ... @classmethod def next_business_day(cls, date, days=1): """ Return the next `days` business day from date. """ ... @classmethod def count_business_days(cls, date1, date2): """ Return the number of business days between 'date1' and 'date2'. """ ... @classmethod def year(cls, year): """ Return a list of the actual FederalHoliday dates for `year`. """ ... Take the name "NewYear": if it had been a global constant I would have named it "NEWYEAR"; if it had been a normal class attribute I would have named it "new_year"; however, being an Enum member, it is neither of those things. <context switch> I've written some custom data types as part of my dbf package, and a few of them have instances that are singletons that are created in the global (okay, module) namespace, and for them I followed Python's lead in naming singletons: Python has used Title Case in such things as None, True, and False, so I followed suit and named mine -- Null, NullDate, NullTime, NullDateTime, etc. </context switch> Given my past history with using and creating singleton objects, I followed suit when creating my own Enum classes. I was recently queried about my apparent break with PEP 8 for naming Enum members, to which I replied: > Considering the strange beast that an Enum is, there is not much precedent for it anywhere. > > Consider: > > - Enum is a class > - but it is a container > - and can be iterated over > - and it has a length (which can be zero) > - but it's always True in a boolean sense > > - Enum members are instances of the Enum class > - but are pre-created > - and new ones cannot be created > - but are available as attributes on the class > > Given all that I have been using Title case (or CamelCase) to name the members as it helps > distinguish an Enum member from an ordinary attribute (which Enum classes can also have). I forgot to include in that reply that I think CamelCase also helps to emphasize the special singleton nature of Enum members. My question for the community: Your thoughts/opinions of my reasoning, and if you don't agree then which casing choice would you recommend and use, and why? (Reminder: this question does not include Enums whose names are replacements for existing constants and so the names cannot be changed.) -- ~Ethan~

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