Mailman 3 June 2020 - Python-ideas

Re: Python GIL Thoughts
by Denis Kotov June 30, 2020

June 30, 2020

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Is possible some day add Uniform Function Call Syntax (UFCS) in Python like Dlang?
by marcone＠email.com June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

Is possible some day add Uniform Function Call Syntax (UFCS) in Python like Dlang? Example: https://tour.dlang.org/tour/en/gems/uniform-function-call-syntax-ufcs

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Lists placed into Emergency Moderation status
by Ernest W. Durbin III June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

At the request of the list moderators of python-ideas and python-dev, both lists have been placed into emergency moderation mode. All new posts must be approved before landing on the list. When directed by the list moderators, this moderation will be disabled. -Ernest W. Durbin III Director of Infrastructure Python Software Foundation

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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments
by Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

Threads like these are meaningless, does not provide any learning value and is nowhere near the single vs double quote thread. It opens the gap for people who are not concerned about development jump in the game shifting the focus away while nurturing a culture of thrash I mean you tend to ignore threads from python-dev and python-ideas which is not probably why you subscribed in the first place This is not the first time i am saying that you can fly around the world on official Python … [View More]mailing lists. But it's regrettable that it's the first time i am seeing people telling that they should educate others and things like that. It can be based on the argument and circle around it but personal attacks are off limit If this was a Github issue, i don't think you list moderators would have dragged it around that much. Worst case scenario, someone would have been pinged and the issue taken care of. A PR or closing and you are done. I raised the issue of closing a mail thread before and the impractical nature of it was discussed but maybe warnings and continued posting after the warning results in ban can be enforced And it's annoying that it got dragged to two mailing lists. I respect Python people and i am always eager to follow some C code discussions, deprecating this C API etc. It's a new world for me. Maybe active list members should sign a convention or a vetting process can be setup before we can discuss it on the lists. Not ideal but might be useful. Kind Regards, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer compileralchemy <https://compileralchemy.github.io/> | blog <https://abdur-rahmaanj.github.io/> github <https://github.com/Abdur-RahmaanJ> Mauritius On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 8:11 PM David Mertz <mertz(a)gnosis.cx> wrote: > The commit message is simply silly. It introduces numerous contentious and > false claims that have nothing whatsoever to do with the small wording > change. It misunderstands how language, culture, history, and indeed white > supremacism, work. > > I would recommend amending the commit message. > > The underlying change itself is reasonable, and to my mind a small > improvement. There was unnecessary specificity in using Strunk and White as > reference, and not, say, William Zinsser's _On Writing Well_, which is > almost as well known. In the concrete, it would be exceedingly rare for > these to provide conflicting advice on a specific code comment. > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:34 AM Richard Damon <Richard(a)damon-family.org> > wrote: > >> On 6/29/20 6:22 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> > and describes the >> > old text as a "relic", which is another way of saying that the >> > problems were only there by historical accident, rather than by anyone >> > intentionally keeping it there. >> >> I would say that say that I have seen the term "relic" being used as a >> 'weaponized' word to imply that the old thing WAS there intentionally as >> a repressive measure. I am not saying that this usage was intended to be >> used that way, but just as the old wording was taken as offensive to >> some due to implication, I can see that message as offensive to others >> due to implication, all because some people are easy to offend. >> >> -- >> Richard Damon >> _______________________________________________ >> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev(a)python.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave(a)python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ >> Message archived at >> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/6EN5RNF… >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> > > > -- > The dead increasingly dominate and strangle both the living and the > not-yet born. Vampiric capital and undead corporate persons abuse > the lives and control the thoughts of homo faber. Ideas, once born, > become abortifacients against new conceptions. > _______________________________________________ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev(a)python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/AMH7WMU… > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > [View Less]

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Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments
by Giampaolo Rodola' June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 12:34 PM Nathaniel Smith <njs(a)pobox.com> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:31 AM Steve Holden <steve(a)holdenweb.com> wrote: > > The commit message used, however, reveals implementation details of the > change which are irrelevant to the stated aim, which is making the > documentation clear and concise. Use of such language is certainly > regrettable, since it carries with it the implication that the Python > developer community has … [View More]somehow been wilfully sanctioning "relics of white > supremacy" up until the change was made. > > > > There certainly is a place in tech for politics, as I have argued many > times, and I am sure nobody wishes to continue to use language that might > be offensive to readers. But I would suggest that the politics can safely > be omitted from commit messages, since they can only properly be fully > addressed in the conversation about the PR in advance. The wording of the > commit message has the appearance (probably specious) of wanting to rub > former misdeeds in the face of a largely innocent community, and that is > the principal reason I found it distasteful and unnecessary. > > I just re-read the commit message, and I think you're being > oversensitive and imagining things that aren't there. The actual > commit message is written in a straightforward and factual way, and > spends special effort on *absolving* the community of this kind of > guilt. > "The community" has nothing to be absolved of, "Strunk & White" has nothing to do with white supremacy and there is no guilt. If you feel guilty because you're white then that's your problem. I don't feel guilty for being white, the same way a black person should not feel guilty for being black. And I have literally ZERO excuses to make to you or anybody else in here because I'm white. Assuming guilt based on the color of your skin and constantly attacking that specific group because of that is racist. It's that simple. I find it astonishing how some people here don't seem to realize that (or pretend not to). And what's the goal anyway? Make us all feel guilty, create yet another heated discussion, widen divisions, wait for the occasional folks who dare to speak up against this vitriol and kick them out? And then what? What is the plan here exactly? Don't you folks realize this is a technical forum? Don't you understand how inappropriate it is to constantly bring up these kinds of messages up here, and force people to either witness them silently for fear of repercussions, or to engage in the discussion and risk paying the consequences in terms of work / hiring / career / status / reputation etc.? Because that's what happens, and we all know it. This is a very public forum and we can all be traced back to here. There are professionals here, people who go to conferences and/or make a living out of Python, who pay the rent and support their family with it, and that don't want to be put in this position. It does not scale. It will never scale. Because whether we like it or not we have to coexist together in this virtual space, including with people we don't like. And this is why it is such a good idea to leave politics out of the door and only stay focused on Python. We will still have different opinions and occasional clashes, but as long as they are technical they will be genuine, prolific and everything will be fine as it was before "this" started (I've been reading this list for 12 years now). Discussing politics, on the other hand, will only keep bringing conflict over and over again. There's tons of proof of this already, and I can't envision a different outcome in the long run. Because most of us are not OK with being put against a wall and being blamed for "supremacy", "guilt", "privilege" or whatever term you have in your jargon. I certainly am not. Furthermore, that jargon makes no sense outside of the US and it's just ridiculous. I'm European, am split between living here and in Asia, and I can guarantee you that much. Please, stop this. - Giampaolo - gmpy.dev <https://gmpy.dev/about> [View Less]

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Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments
by Keara Berlin June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

Hi all, this is a very small change, but I thought I would field it here to see if anyone has suggestions or ideas. Instead of requiring that comments be written in Strunk & White Standard English, PEP-8 should require instead that English-language comments be clear and easily understandable by other English speakers. This accomplishes the same goal without alienating or putting up barriers for people (especially people of color) whose native dialect of English is not Standard English. This … [View More]

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Modularize Python library
by redradist＠gmail.com June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

Hi all, me again ... ) I think it would be desired to modularize Python library and then to provide part of standard library through PyPi It will add possibility to evolve separately run-time and standard library I think standard library should be as small as needed and all other functionality should be provided through PyPi It will be similar as `Rust` did ... they have pretty small `standard library` and `core library` If Python would have small `standard library` and `core library` it … [View More]

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Should use of _ as an R-value be deprecated?
by Neil Girdhar June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

PEP 622 proposes a special use for _: to match anything, discarding the whatever value matches. (If I understand.) This aligns with the way _ is conventionally used in other statements. This special use in case statements feels weird given that _ is otherwise just an ordinary variable. It may even have a value going into the case/match statement, which would be ignored. Has there been any discussion on deprecating use of _ as an R-value? In other words, making _ a "black hole" … [View More]

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Python __main__ function
by redradist＠gmail.com June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

Hi all, In Python we often use the following syntax to call the main logic of script when it was ran: ```python def main(): pass # whatever should be done for `python ./script.py` if __name__ == '__main__': main() ``` Maybe it is a time to introduce the new module level function like __main__ ? Consider the following code: ```python def __main__(): pass # whatever should be done for `python ./script.py` ``` It is much easy an less code to write ;) Under-hood `Python` just will … [View More]

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MODERATOR - in re "Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments"
by C. Titus Brown June 29, 2020

June 29, 2020

Hello everyone, the above referenced thread is getting heated and unfriendly; I’ve already rejected a message as inappropriately ad hominem. Please take some time to (re)consider the content of your e-mails before sending them. We may turn on default moderation if it continues. As a reminder: The code of conduct that governs this list (and all Python spaces) is here, https://www.python.org/psf/conduct/. If you want to discuss the python code of conduct and its applicability to this thread (… [View More]

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