Python-ideas July 2020

python-ideas@python.org

93 participants
58 discussions

by Steven D'Aprano

Hi Ilya, I'm not sure that this mailing list (Python-Dev) is the right place for this discussion, I think that Python-Ideas (CCed) is the correct place. For the benefit of Python-Ideas, I have left your entire post below, to establish context. [Ilya] > I needed reversed(enumerate(x: list)) in my code, and have discovered > that it wound't work. This is disappointing because operation is well > defined. It isn't really well-defined, since enumerate can operate on infinite iterators, and you cannot reverse an infinite stream. Consider: def values(): while True: yield random.random() a, b = reversed(enumerate(values()) What should the first pair of (a, b) be? However, having said that, I think that your idea is not unreasonable. `enumerate(it)` in the most general case isn't reversable, but if `it` is reversable and sized, there's no reason why `enumerate(it)` shouldn't be too. My personal opinion is that this is a fairly obvious and straightforward enhancement, one which (hopefully!) shouldn't require much, if any, debate. I don't think we need a new class for this, I think enhancing enumerate to be reversable if its underlying iterator is reversable makes good sense. But if you can show some concrete use-cases, especially one or two from the standard library, that would help your case. Or some other languages which offer this functionality as standard. On the other hand, I think that there is a fairly lightweight work around. Define a helper function: def countdown(n): while True: yield n n -= 1 then call it like this: # reversed(enumerate(seq)) zip(countdown(len(seq)-1), reversed(seq))) So it isn't terribly hard to work around this. But I agree that it would be nice if enumerate encapsulated this for the caller. One potentially serious question: what should `enumerate.__reversed__` do when given a starting value? reversed(enumerate('abc', 1)) Should that yield...? # treat the start value as a start value (1, 'c'), (0, 'b'), (-1, 'a') # treat the start value as an end value (3, 'c'), (2, 'b'), (1, 'a') Something else? My preference would be to treat the starting value as an ending value. Steven On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 08:45:34PM +0200, Ilya Kamenshchikov wrote: > Hi, > > I needed reversed(enumerate(x: list)) in my code, and have discovered that > it wound't work. This is disappointing because operation is well defined. > It is also well defined for str type, range, and - in principle, but not > yet in practice - on dictionary iterators - keys(), values(), items() as > dictionaries are ordered now. > It would also be well defined on any user type implementing __iter__, > __len__, __reversed__ - think numpy arrays, some pandas dataframes, tensors. > > That's plenty of usecases, therefore I guess it would be quite useful to > avoid hacky / inefficient solutions like described here: > https://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/706205/. > > If deemed useful, I would be interested in implementing this, maybe > together with __reversed__ on dict keys, values, items. > > Best Regards, > -- > Ilya Kamen > > ----------- > p.s. > > *Sketch* of what I am proposing: > > class reversible_enumerate: > > def __init__(self, iterable): > self.iterable = iterable > self.ctr = 0 > > def __iter__(self): > for e in self.iterable: > yield self.ctr, e > self.ctr += 1 > > def __reversed__(self): > try: > ri = reversed(self.iterable) > except Exception as e: > raise Exception( > "enumerate can only be reversed if iterable to > enumerate can be reversed and has defined length." > ) from e > > try: > l = len(self.iterable) > except Exception as e: > raise Exception( > "enumerate can only be reversed if iterable to > enumerate can be reversed and has defined length." > ) from e > > indexes = range(l-1, -1, -1) > for i, e in zip(indexes, ri): > yield i, e > > for i, c in reversed(reversible_enumerate("Hello World")): > print(i, c) > > for i, c in reversed(reversible_enumerate([11, 22, 33])): > > print(i, c) > _______________________________________________ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev(a)python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/NDDKDUD… > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

5 days, 15 hours

Add command-line option to unittest for enabling post-mortem debugging

by Dominik Vilsmeier

Consider the following example: import unittest def foo(): for x in [1, 2, 'oops', 4]: print(x + 100) class TestFoo(unittest.TestCase): def test_foo(self): self.assertIs(foo(), None) if __name__ == '__main__': unittest.main() If we were calling `foo` directly we could enter post-mortem debugging via `python -m pdb test.py`. However since `foo` is wrapped in a test case, `unittest` eats the exception and thus prevents post-mortem debugging. `--failfast` doesn't help, the exception is still swallowed. Since I am not aware of a solution that enables post-mortem debugging in such a case (without modifying the test scripts, please correct me if one exists), I propose adding a command-line option to `unittest` for [running test cases in debug mode](https://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.html#unittest.TestCase.deb… so that post-mortem debugging can be used. P.S.: There is also [this SO question](https://stackoverflow.com/q/4398967/3767239) on a similar topic.

2 weeks, 4 days

Python JIT Compilation Thoughts

by redradist＠gmail.com

Hi all, I do not know maybe it was already discussed ... but the toolchain like LLVM is very mature and it can provide the simpler JIT compilation to machine code functionality and it will improve performance of the Python a lot !!

3 weeks

@classproperty, @abc.abstractclasspropery, etc.

by K. Richard Pixley

There's a whole matrix of these and I'm wondering why the matrix is currently sparse rather than implementing them all. Or rather, why we can't stack them as: class foo(object): @classmethod @property def bar(cls, ...): ... Essentially the permutation are, I think: {'unadorned'|abc.abstract}{'normal'|static|class}{method|property|non-callable attribute}. concreteness implicit first arg type name comments {unadorned} {unadorned} method def foo(): exists now {unadorned} {unadorned} property @property exists now {unadorned} {unadorned} non-callable attribute x = 2 exists now {unadorned} static method @staticmethod exists now {unadorned} static property @staticproperty proposing {unadorned} static non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary {unadorned} class method @classmethod exists now {unadorned} class property @classproperty or @classmethod;@property proposing {unadorned} class non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary abc.abstract {unadorned} method @abc.abstractmethod exists now abc.abstract {unadorned} property @abc.abstractproperty exists now abc.abstract {unadorned} non-callable attribute @abc.abstractattribute or @abc.abstract;@attribute proposing abc.abstract static method @abc.abstractstaticmethod exists now abc.abstract static property @abc.staticproperty proposing abc.abstract static non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary abc.abstract class method @abc.abstractclassmethod exists now abc.abstract class property @abc.abstractclassproperty proposing abc.abstract class non-callable attribute {degenerate case - variables don't have arguments} unnecessary I think the meanings of the new ones are pretty straightforward, but in case they are not... @staticproperty - like @property only without an implicit first argument. Allows the property to be called directly from the class without requiring a throw-away instance. @classproperty - like @property, only the implicit first argument to the method is the class. Allows the property to be called directly from the class without requiring a throw-away instance. @abc.abstractattribute - a simple, non-callable variable that must be overridden in subclasses @abc.abstractstaticproperty - like @abc.abstractproperty only for @staticproperty @abc.abstractclassproperty - like @abc.abstractproperty only for @classproperty --rich

1 month, 1 week

Bringing the print statement back

by Guido van Rossum

In Python 3.10 we will no longer be burdened by the old parser (though 3rd party tooling needs to catch up). One thing that the PEG parser makes possible in about 20 lines of code is something not entirely different from the old print statement. I have a prototype: Python 3.10.0a0 (heads/print-statement-dirty:5ed19fcc1a, Jun 9 2020, 16:31:17) [Clang 11.0.0 (clang-1100.0.33.8)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. Cannot read termcap database; using dumb terminal settings. >>> print 2+2 4 >>> print "hello world" hello world >>> print "hello", input("Name:") Name:Guido hello Guido >>> print 1, 2, 3, sep=", " 1, 2, 3 >>> But wait, there's more! The same syntax will make it possible to call *any* function: >>> len "abc" 3 >>> Or any method: >>> import sys >>> sys.getrefcount "abc" 24 >>> Really, *any* method: >>> class C: ... def foo(self, arg): print arg ... >>> C().foo 2+2 4 >>> There are downsides too, though. For example, you can't call a method without arguments: >>> print <built-in function print> >>> Worse, the first argument cannot start with a parenthesis or bracket: >>> print (1, 2, 3) 1 2 3 >>> C().foo (1, 2, 3) Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> TypeError: C.foo() takes 2 positional arguments but 4 were given >>> print (2+2), 42 4 (None, 42) >>> C().foo [0] Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> TypeError: 'method' object is not subscriptable >>> No, it's not April 1st. I am seriously proposing this (but I'll withdraw it if the response is a resounding "boo, hiss"). After all, we currently have a bunch of complexity in the parser just to give a helpful error message to people used to Python 2's print statement: >>> print 1, 2, 3 File "<stdin>", line 1 print 1, 2, 3 ^ SyntaxError: Missing parentheses in call to 'print'. Did you mean print(1, 2, 3)? >>> And IIRC there have been a number of aborted attempts at syntactic hacks to allow people to call functions (like print) without parentheses, although (I think) none of them made it into a PEP. The PEG parser makes this much simpler, because it can simply backtrack -- by placing the grammar rule for this syntax (tentatively called "call statement") last in the list of alternatives for "small statement" we ensure that everything that's a valid expression statement (including print() calls) is still an expression statement with exactly the same meaning, while still allowing parameter-less function calls, without lexical hacks. (There is no code in my prototype that checks for a space after 'print' -- it just checks that there's a name, number or string following a name, which is never legal syntax.) One possible extension I didn't pursue (yet -- dare me!) is to allow parameter-less calls inside other expressions. For example, my prototype does not support things like this: >>> a = (len "abc") File "<stdin>", line 1 a = (len "abc") ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax >>> I think that strikes a reasonable balance between usability and reduced detection of common errors. I could also dial it back a bit, e.g. maybe it's too much to allow 'C().foo x' and we should only allow dotted names (sufficient to access functions in imported modules and method calls on variables). Or maybe we should only allow simple names (allowing 'len x' but disallowing 'sys.getrefcount x'. Or maybe we should really only bring back print statements. I believe there are some other languages that support a similar grammar (Ruby? R? Raku?) but I haven't investigated. Thoughts? -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)* <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-…>

3 months

Fwd: Re: Experimenting with dict performance, and an immutable dict

by Marco Sulla

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 at 15:35, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis(a)pitrou.net> wrote: > The deltas also look small for a micro-benchmark. I certainly don't > think this is a sufficient reason to add a new datatype to Python. > I think some of the optimizations can be experimented with dict itself. Deltas seem to be small, because I divide them by the number of timeit runs. I think that a 30-45% gain in constructor speed is not something small. The benchmarks in question have the Name that starts with "constructor". PS: sorry for double mail, I sent this message to only you by mistake. On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 at 18:26, Guido van Rossum <guido(a)python.org> wrote: > Did you study PEP 416 (frozendict) and PEP 603 (frozenmap)? > Yes. About frozenmap, at the very start I added to the benchmarks also immutables.Map, but I removed it when I realized that it was slower than frozendict in every bench. Maybe this is because immutables.Map is a C extension and not a builtin type. About PEP 416, yes, I tried to follow it. Indeed hash is calculated using the strategy described in the PEP. I also take a look to frozenset and tuple code. Frankly I must admit that the rejection of PEP 416 was a good idea. Indeed I started to implement an immutable dict only for a symmetry reason, and because I am somewhat fascinated by functional programming and immutables, without a rational reason. I suppose I would have given up and admitted that a frozendict is quite useless in Python, if I did not see that the constructor speed can be faster. I'm not sure 100% of the result. This is why I'm suggesting to try to implement the speed optimizations to the constructor of dict first: 1. the optimizations could be not safe. Indeed recently I got a segfault that I have to investigate 2. maybe dict can be really optimized further. After that, the difference between dict and frozendict performance could be minimal That said, maybe there are four good use cases for a frozendict: 1. they could be used for __annotations__ of function objects, and similar cases 2. they could be used to implement "immutable" modules or classes 3. frozendict can be easily cached, like tuples. 4. as I said, as an alternative to MappingProxyType, since it's very slow and it's used also in the C code of CPython and in the Python stdlib. This maybe is not useful because: a. the speed of MappingProxyType can be improved b. MappingProxyType can't be replaced because you *really* want and need a proxy

3 months, 1 week

Access (ordered) dict by index; insert slice

by Hans Ginzel

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2020 18:47:44 +0200 From: Hans Ginzel <hans(a)matfyz.cz> To: Hans Ginzel <hans(a)artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz> Subject: Access (ordered) dict by index; insert slice Hello, thank you for making dict ordered. Is it planned to access key,value pair(s) by index? See https://stackoverflow.com/a/44687752/2556118 for example. Both for reading and (re)writing? Is it planned to insert pair(s) on exact index? Or generally to slice? See splice() in Perl, https://perldoc.perl.org/functions/splice.html. Use case: Represent database table metadata (columns). It is useful as to access columns both by name and by index as to insert column on specific position, https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/alter-table.html, “ALTER TABLE ADD COLUMN [FIRST |AFTER col]” (consider default order or table storage size optimisation by aligning). Thank you in advance, Hans PS1: Named tuples cannot be used, are immutable. PS2: See https://metacpan.org/pod/perlref#Pseudo-hashes:-Using-an-array-as-a-hash

4 months, 2 weeks

Compound with .. else statement

by Jimmy Thrasibule

Hi, In Python, there are multiple [compound statements](https://docs.python.org/3/reference/compound_stmts.html) with the `else` keyword. For example: ``` for x in iterable: if x == sentinel: break else: print("Sentinel not found.") ``` or: ``` try: do_something_sensitive() except MyError: print("Oops!") else: print("We're all safe.") ``` In my situation, I would like to mix the `with` statement with `else`. In this case I would like that if no exception is raised within the `with` to run the `else` part. For example: ``` with my_context(): do_something_sensitive() else: print("We're all safe.") ``` Now imagine that in my `try .. except` block I have some heavy setup to do before `do_something_sensitive()` and some heavy cleanup when the exception occurs. I'd like my context manager to do the preparation work, execute the body, and cleanup. Or execute my else block only if there is no exception. Is there already a way to accomplish this in Python or can this be a nice to have? Regards, Jimmy

4 months, 2 weeks

What about having a .get(index, default) method for arrays like we have for dicts?

by Daniel.

When I need to traverse nested dicts, is a common pattern to do somedict.get('foo', {}).get('bar', {}) But there is no such equivalent for arrays, wouldn't be nice if we can follow somedict.get('foo', {}).get('bar', []).get(10) ... ? What I do in this case is surround with try/except IndexError and set some variable to None, or wrap the try/except block in a function. But this is noise in my opinion, I just want to follow the same reasoning that I have with dicts: I'm searching for some path deep nested, and want a default if not found. What do you think? Regards -- “If you're going to try, go all the way. Otherwise, don't even start. ..." Charles Bukowski

5 months

Aside RE: Re: macaddress or networkaddress module

by Steve Barnes

As an aside I have a perfect example to back up what Paul is saying below. I work for a large corporation where developers are permitted to install python modules on their development machines, (subject to some licence restrictions), but the proxy settings required to get to PyPi vary from user to user, site to site, day to day (sometimes hour to hour) and connection type to connection type, e.g. If you are connected via WiFi you need to use a different proxy to that needed if you are on a wired connection and on a VPN (we have more than one in use) different again. To help with this I have put together a script that will try pip, if it fails will check the current location for pac.pac, get and parse it for proxies, correct a common incompatibility and then try each discovered proxy and if sill none work fall back to a list of common proxies. Once it finds a working setting it advises the user what to use in the current situation. Obviously, since the script is intended to work out how to get to PyPi, I needed to stick 100% to the standard libraries. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Moore <p.f.moore(a)gmail.com> Sent: 06 April 2020 09:11 To: Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> Cc: Pete Wicken <petewicken(a)gmail.com>; Python-Ideas <python-ideas(a)python.org> Subject: [Python-ideas] Re: macaddress or networkaddress module On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 04:14, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: > That's OK for developers on their "own" machines, but I think there > are still a lot of folks who need approval from corporate (though I > haven't heard from Paul Moore on that theme in quite a while, maybe > it's gotten better?) Howdy :-) It's actually got a bit worse, to the point where I don't bother trying to fight the system as much any more, so things have gone quieter because of that :-) But yes, I still believe that there are important use cases for code that only uses the stdlib, and "not being able to get to the internet" is a valid use case that we shouldn't just dismiss. On the other hand, with regard to the comment you were replying to: > Up to around a decade ago, installing third-party libraries > was a huge mess, but nowadays, PyPI works, Python comes with pip > pre-installed, and telling developers they need internet access > when they first start a new project isn’t considered onerous. I think all of that is true. What I think is more important, though, is around things that aren't so much "projects" as "scripts", and that *distributing* such scripts that depend on 3rd party libraries is still problematic. Here, I'm not talking about making full-fledged packages, or py2exe style fully bundled apps, but "here's this monitoring script I wrote, let's ship it across 10 production systems and why don't you try it out on your dev boxes?" There's a *significant* step change in complexity between doing that if the script depends on just the stdlib, versus if it depends on a 3rd party module. And we don't have a really good answer to that yet (zipapps, and tools like shiv that wrap zipapps, are pretty good in practice, but they are not well known or commonly used). Paul _______________________________________________ Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas(a)python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-leave(a)python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/5BN5D… Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

5 months, 2 weeks

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

Python-ideas July 2020