On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 21:54, Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:

>

> Because all the git history would be lost, and lots of code would break.



Well, names could have been converted to their snake case counterpart,

possibly even leaving the old camelcase form as deprecated, and in any

case the breakage was already being performed for many modules such as

e.g. StringIO.StringIO





> On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 13:14 Stefano Borini <stefano.borini@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> Brings me to a question. Why weren't the logger and unittest module

>>

>> "PEP-8"ified in the transition from 2 to 3?

>>

>>

>>

>> And I agree that both modules are a bit odd.

>>

>>

>>

>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 17:31, Christopher Barker <pythonchb@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> >

>>

>> > I agree about the heavy rhetoric, but the OP has a good point. I have often thought the same thing.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Isn’t it a bit ironic that the stdlib version of an important module is a poor example of Pythonic style[*] and we have to find a third party package to do something as important as logging?

>>

>> >

>>

>> > But the way forward would be to suggest an alternative, rather than rant about it :-)

>>

>> >

>>

>> > So the question is: would an update/addition/alternative API to the logging module be considered for inclusion in the stdlib?

>>

>> >

>>

>> > -CHB

>>

>> >

>>

>> > [*] Of course, it is not a given that logging IS non-Pythonic, if the community likes it as it is, then this, of course, is a non starter.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > PS: unittest is another candidate, though even more integral to core Python. But I’d love to see a “pytest lite” in the stdlib. I suspect I’m not the only one that only uses unittest for the stdlib.

>>

>> >

>>

>> > IIUC,  both the logging and unittest design were inspired (if not directly ported) from Java. Which explains their out-of-place feeling design. As the say, “Python is not Java” — so maybe Python should not log and test like java?

>>

>> >

>>

>> > -CHB

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> >

>>

>> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:41 AM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> There is no need for all that heavy rhetoric.

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> There are many 3rd party modules that provide simpler interfaces to the logging module.

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> Go do some Googling.

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 06:03 Adam Hendry <adam.grant.hendry@gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>> Dear Python-ideas,

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>> After looking at the `logging` module, I slammed my fist on my desk and declared "There has to be a better way!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M). Can we make the `logging` module more "Pythonic" per Raymond Hettinger's presentation "Beyond PEP 8 -- Best practices for beautiful intelligible code - PyCon 2015"?

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>> Thank you,

>>

>> >>> Adam Hendry

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>> _______________________________________________

>>

>> >>>

>>

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>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-leave@python.org

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>> Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/BK6P32YAUZ2D763LJXKI6WNVUNHQIBKH/

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

>>

>> >>>

>>

>> >> --

>>

>> >> --Guido (mobile)

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> _______________________________________________

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-leave@python.org

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/4M6NMEGR32DTY4T5S5UMTQV7LAQKEKCU/

>>

>> >>

>>

>> >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

>>

>> >>

>>

>> > --

>>

>> > Christopher Barker, PhD

>>

>> >

>>

>> > Python Language Consulting

>>

>> >   - Teaching

>>

>> >   - Scientific Software Development

>>

>> >   - Desktop GUI and Web Development

>>

>> >   - wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython

>>

>> > _______________________________________________

>>

>> > Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org

>>

>> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-leave@python.org

>>

>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/

>>

>> > Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/MXQPMHKA6D63OAAWJIOPF7QBSUB33FN2/

>>

>> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>> Kind regards,

>>

>>

>>

>> Stefano Borini

>>

> --

> --Guido (mobile)







--

Kind regards,



Stefano Borini