-----Original Message----- From: Python-ideas [mailto:python-ideas-bounces+tritium- list=sdamon.com@python.org] On Behalf Of Erik Bray Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 6:28 AM To: Python-Ideas <python-ideas@python.org> Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] install pip packages from Python prompt
On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Alex Walters <tritium-list@sdamon.com> wrote:
Then those users have more fundamental problems. There is a minimum level of computer knowledge needed to be successful in programming. Insulating users from the reality of the situation is not preparing them to be successful. Pretending that there is no system command prompt, or shell, or whatever platform specific term applies, only hurts new programmers. Give users an error message they can google, and they will be better off in the long run than they would be if we just ran pip for them.
While I completely agree with this in principle, I think you overestimate the average beginner.
Nope. I totally get that they don’t know what a shell or command prompt is. THEY. NEED. TO. LEARN. Hiding it is not a good idea for anyone. If this is an insurmountable problem for the newbie, maybe they really shouldn’t be attempting to program. This field is not for everyone.
Many beginners I've taught or helped, even if they can manage to get to the correct command prompt, often don't even know how to run the correct Python. They might often have multiple Pythons installed on their system--maybe they have Anaconda, maybe Python installed by homebrew, or a Python that came with an IDE like Spyder. If they're on OSX often running "python" from the command prompt gives the system's crippled Python 2.6 and they don't know the difference.
One thing that has been a step in the right direction is moving more documentation toward preferring running `python -m pip` over just `pip`, since this often has a better guarantee of running `pip` in the Python interpreter you intended. But that still requires one to know how to run the correct Python interpreter from the command-line (which the newbie double-clicking on IDLE may not even have a concept of...).
While I agree this is something that is important for beginners to learn (e.g. print(sys.executable) if in doubt), it *is* a high bar for many newbies just to install one or two packages from pip, which they often might need/want to do for whatever educational pursuit they're following (heck, it's pretty common even just to want to install the `requests` module, as I would never throw `urllib` at a beginner).
So while I don't think anything proposed here will work technically, I am in favor of an in-interpreter pip install functionality. Perhaps it could work something like this:
a) Allow it *only* in interactive mode: running `pip(...)` (or whatever this looks like) outside of interactive mode raises a `RuntimeError` with the appropriate documentation b) When running `pip(...)` the user is supplied with an interactive prompt explaining that since installing packages with `pip()` can result in changes to the interpreter, it is necessary to restart the interpreter after installation--give them an opportunity to cancel the action in case they have any work they need to save. If they proceed, install the new package then restart the interpreter for them. This avoids any ambiguity as to states of loaded modules before/after pip install.
From: Stephan Houben [mailto:stephanh42@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:43 PM To: Alex Walters <tritium-list@sdamon.com> Cc: Python-Ideas <python-ideas@python.org> Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] install pip packages from Python prompt
Hi Alex,
2017-10-29 20:26 GMT+01:00 Alex Walters <tritium-list@sdamon.com>:
return “Please run pip from your system command prompt”
The target audience for my proposal are people who do not know
which part of the sheep the "system command prompt" is.
Stephan
From: Python-ideas [mailto:python-ideas-bounces+tritium-list=sdamon.com@python.org] On Behalf Of Stephan Houben Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:19 PM To: Python-Ideas <python-ideas@python.org> Subject: [Python-ideas] install pip packages from Python prompt
Hi all,
Here is in somewhat more detail my earlier proposal for
having in the interactive Python interpreter a `pip` function to
install packages from Pypi.
Motivation: it appears to me that there is a category of newbies
for which "open a shell and do `pip whatever`" is a bit too much.
It would, in my opinion, simplify things a bit if they could just
copy-and-paste some text into the Python interpreter and have
some packages from pip installed.
That would simplify instructions on how to install package xyz,
without going into the vagaries of how to open a shell on various
platforms, and how to get to the right pip executable.
I think this could be as simple as:
def pip(args): import sys import subprocess subprocess.check_call([sys.executable, "-m", "pip"] + args.split())
print("Please re-start Python now to use installed or upgraded packages.")
Note that I added the final message about restarting the interpreter
as a low-tech solution to the problem of packages being already
imported in the current Python session.
I would imagine that the author of package xyz would then put on
their webpage something like:
To use, enter in your Python interpreter:
pip("install xyz --user")
As another example, consider prof. Baldwin from Woolamaloo university
who teaches a course "Introductory Python programming for Sheep Shavers".
In his course material, he instructs his students to execute the
following line in their Python interpreter.
pip("install woolamaloo-sheepshavers-goodies --user")
which will install a package which will in turn, as dependencies,
pull in a number of packages which are relevant for sheep shaving but
which have nevertheless irresponsibly been left outside the stdlib.
Stephan
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