On 18 Mar 2014 22:18, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal@egenix.com> wrote:
>
> On 18.03.2014 12:27, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> > On 18 March 2014 20:47, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2014-03-18 08:02, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >>>  > operator.matmul and PyObject_MatrixMultiply are obvious enough, but
> >>>  > I'm afraid I'm not too clear on the tradeoffs about adding a C level
> >>>  > type slot, or even entirely sure what the alternative is. (I guess I
> >>>  > just assumed that all special methods used C level type slots and
> >>>  > there was nothing to think about.) Do you (or anyone) have any
> >>>  > thoughts?
> >>>
> >>> I suspect you're going to want one, as without it, the implementation
> >>> method
> >>> ends up in the class dict instead (the context management protocol works
> >>> that way).
> >>>
> >>> I suspect the design we will want is a new struct for Py_Matrix slots
> >>> (akin to
> >>> those for numbers, etc). The alternative would be to just add more
> >>> "Number"
> >>> slots, but that isn't really accurate.
> >
> >
> > So, here's the change to PyHeapType object that makes the most sense
> > to me (assuming both "@" and "@@" are added - drop the new "power"
> > methods if "@@" is dropped from the PEP):
> >
> > - add "PyMatrixMethods as_matrix;" as a new field in PyHeapTypeObject
> > - define PyMatrixMethods as:
> >
> >     typedef struct {
> >         binaryfunc mt_multiply;
> >         binaryfunc mt_power;
> >         binaryfunc mt_inplace_multiply;
> >         binaryfunc mt_inplace_power;
> >    } PyMatrixMethods;
> >
> > This approach increases the size of all type objects by one pointer.
> >
> > The other way to do it would be to just add four new slots to PyNumberMethods:
> >
> >         binaryfunc nb_matrix_multiply;
> >         binaryfunc nb_matrix_power;
> >         binaryfunc nb_inplace_matrix_multiply;
> >         binaryfunc nb_inplace_matrix_power;
> >
> > This approach increases the size of all type objects that define one
> > or more of the numeric functions by four pointers, and doesn't really
> > make sense at a conceptual level. The latter is the main reason I
> > prefer the separate PyMatrixMethods struct.
>
> I don't think that it's a good idea to make all type objects
> larger just to address matrix multiplications which none of the
> builtin types will actually use, so +1 on adding to the number
> methods, even if a matrix isn't a number (they still use numbers,
> so it's not that far off :-)), but -1 on adding another slot
> struct.
>
> Aside: Mechanisms such as namedtuple add lots of new type
> objects to the runtime environment, so it's no longer safe to
> assume that the size of type objects doesn't really matter much
> in real-life applications.

So, here's the problem: operand precedence for sequences implemented in C is currently broken in certain relatively obscure cases (and has been since forever - we only found out about due to an SQL Alchemy failure when porting to PyPy revealed PyPy was right and CPython was wrong). This is why returning NotImplemented from sq_concat and sq_repeat doesn't work right. The problem doesn't arise for sequences implemented in Python, because we always populate the nb_add and nb_multiply slots for those.

I've tried fixing that directly, and it turned abstract.c into an unmaintainable mess, so I abandoned that approach. My current preferred solution is now similar to the one we use from Python: drop the direct calls to sq_concat and sq_repeat from abstract.c, and instead automatically add nb_add and nb_multiply implementations during type creation that delegate dynamically to the sequence slots.

So a *lot* of types already have their PyNumberMethods slot allocated (including sequence types implemented in Python), and I'd like to expand that to include all sequence types, even those implemented in C.

That makes the space trade-off here substantially less clear, particularly if matrix power ends up being added in the future (it has been dropped from the current PEP).

I accept that adding the new slots to PyNumberMethods is more conceptually coherent than I thought, though. There's also the fact that we already mess about populating different slots for pragmatic reasons that have nothing to do with conceptual integrity :)

Cheers,
Nick.

>
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> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> eGenix.com
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