On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 6:21 AM Joao S. O. Bueno <jsbueno@python.org.br> wrote:
Here is another hint that this usage would not resolve the problem of
having a literal frozenset. Even in the core of this discussion, with folks participating and knowing what they are talking about, the first thing that comes to mind when seeing a method call is that the target set would be copied.
sure, and in the general case, a_set.frozen() would presumably return a copy. as does frozenset(a_set) -- which is all we have at the moment.
But upon seeing a method call, we can just think first of a runtime behavior Correctly, btw. Any optimization there would be an exception, that people would have to know by heart.
But people shouldn't have to think about to trigger a compiler optimization anyway, that's just a nice bonus the compiler does for you. If this does all come to pass, then: s = {3,8,2}.frozen() will be slightly faster, in some case, than s = frozenset({3,8,2} but the result would be the same. There are plenty of tricks to in python to get a touch more performance, this would just be one more and frankly pretty rare that it would make an noticable difference at all. +1 on this +0 on f{} -1 on making frozenset a keyword -CHB On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:31 AM Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info>
wrote:
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 07:12:04AM -0500, Ricky Teachey wrote:
Why does it need to be called at all?
{1, 2, 3}.frozen
For the same reason that most methods are methods, not properties.
The aim of a good API is not to minimize the amount of typing, it is to communicate the *meaning* of the code as best as possible.
`{1, 2, 3}.frozen` says that the result is an attribute (property, member) of the set. Like *name* to a person, or *tail* to a dog, the attribute API represents something which is part of, or a quality of, the object. The frozenset is not an attribute of the set, it is a transformation of the set into a different type.
A transformation should be written as an explicit function or method call, not as attribute access. Yes, we can hide that transformation behind a property just to save typing two characters, but that is an abuse of notation.
Also, it is standard in Python to avoid properties if the computation could be expensive. Copying a large set or millions of elements into a frozenset could be expensive, so we should keep it a method call.
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