On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at
12:34 PM Nathaniel Smith <
njs@pobox.com>
wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at
2:31 AM Steve Holden <steve@holdenweb.com> wrote:
> The commit message used, however, reveals
implementation details of the change which are irrelevant to
the stated aim, which is making the documentation clear and
concise. Use of such language is certainly regrettable,
since it carries with it the implication that the Python
developer community has somehow been wilfully sanctioning
"relics of white supremacy" up until the change was made.
>
> There certainly is a place in tech for politics, as I
have argued many times, and I am sure nobody wishes to
continue to use language that might be offensive to readers.
But I would suggest that the politics can safely be omitted
from commit messages, since they can only properly be fully
addressed in the conversation about the PR in advance. The
wording of the commit message has the appearance (probably
specious) of wanting to rub former misdeeds in the face of a
largely innocent community, and that is the principal reason
I found it distasteful and unnecessary.
I just re-read the commit message, and I think you're being
oversensitive and imagining things that aren't there. The
actual
commit message is written in a straightforward and factual
way, and
spends special effort on *absolving* the community of this
kind of
guilt.
"The community" has nothing to be absolved of, "Strunk
& White" has nothing to do with white supremacy and
there is no guilt. If you feel guilty because you're white
then that's your problem. I don't feel guilty for being
white, the same way a black person should not feel guilty
for being black. And I have literally ZERO excuses to make
to you or anybody else in here because I'm white. Assuming
guilt based on the color of your skin and constantly
attacking that specific group because of that is racist.
It's that simple. I find it astonishing how some people here
don't seem to realize that (or pretend not to).
And what's the goal anyway? Make us all feel guilty,
create yet another heated discussion, widen divisions, wait
for the occasional folks who dare to speak up against this
vitriol and kick them out? And then what? What is the plan
here exactly? Don't you folks realize this is a technical
forum? Don't you understand how inappropriate it is to
constantly bring up these kinds of messages up here, and
force people to either witness them silently for fear of
repercussions, or to engage in the discussion and risk
paying the consequences in terms of work / hiring / career /
status / reputation etc.? Because that's what happens, and
we all know it. This is a very public forum and we can all
be traced back to here. There are professionals here, people
who go to conferences and/or make a living out of Python,
who pay the rent and support their family with it, and that
don't want to be put in this position.
It does not scale. It will never scale. Because whether
we like it or not we have to coexist together in this
virtual space, including with people we don't like. And this
is why it is such a good idea to leave politics out of the
door and only stay focused on Python. We will still have
different opinions and occasional clashes, but as long as
they are technical they will be genuine, prolific and
everything will be fine as it was before "this" started
(I've been reading this list for 12 years now). Discussing
politics, on the other hand, will only keep bringing
conflict over and over again. There's tons of proof of this
already, and I can't envision a different outcome in the
long run. Because most of us are not OK with being put
against a wall and being blamed for "supremacy", "guilt",
"privilege" or whatever term you have in your jargon. I
certainly am not. Furthermore, that jargon makes no sense
outside of the US and it's just ridiculous. I'm European, am
split between living here and in Asia, and I can guarantee
you that much.
Please, stop this.