On 22/07/2020 00:29, MRAB wrote:
On 2020-07-22 00:02, Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas wrote:
On 21/07/2020 22:07, Barry wrote:
This is a continuation of my previous post to this thread.
Python's FOR ... ELSE ... , Raymond Hettinger has told us, has origins in some ideas of Don Knuth.
That’s news to me (both that it’s due to Knuth and that Raymond said so). I invented it without awareness of prior art, by reasoning about the similarity between IF and WHILE (FOR followed from WHILE).
See Raymond's video "Transforming Code into Beautiful, Idiomatic Python" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSGv2VnC0go from 15 min 50 sec to 18 min 57 sec.
On 20/07/2020 15:42, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Also, let me be clear that this feature will never be added to the language.
With respect, that seems pretty dogmatic, given that for...else is one of the most confusing features of Python. What would be so terrible about allowing, at minimum, `if not break:' as a synonym for 'else:'?
- Because that not what else mean today. Its elif never looped.
- Because if after for is confusing. I can get behind elif as after
for it pull work.
I'm sorry, of the above two points I don't understand 1. at all, and I only half understand 2. Please could you rephrase more clearly for an idiot like me.:-) But as to `if` after `for` being confusing, are you seriously saying that `else` after `for` is *less* confusing?
'if' introduces a statement structure, 'else' doesn't. Having 'if' sometimes continue a statement structure (a loop) would be more confusing.
The current rule: 'else' continues the 'if' or loop structure.
The new rule: 'if' continues a preceding loop structure if it's followed by 'break', else it's the start of an 'if' structure.
Which rule is simpler?
"Simpler" doesn't always equate to "easier to understand". Which is more *intuitive*, for...else or for...if [not] break? And if we allowed for...if [not] break... else - now there's an example of 'else' after 'for' that anyone could grok.
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