On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 15:37, Brendan Barnwell <brenbarn@brenbarn.net> wrote:
On 2022-03-07 15:32, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 10:20, Brendan Barnwell <brenbarn@brenbarn.net> wrote:
On 2022-03-06 14:43, Chris Angelico wrote:
This keeps happening. All the successful ideas seem to happen elsewhere, notably on typing-sig.
You seem to see that as a positive thing, but I would be happier if fewer typing-related changes made it in.
I'm not sure whether it's positive or not. All I can see is that changes get proposed on typing-sig and actually make it into the language, but changes that get proposed on python-ideas are invariably shot down in flames, no matter how good or bad. I do NOT believe that every idea on typing-sig is good and that every idea on python-ideas is bad, so what is it that makes typing-sig actually successful in refining ideas into usable form that python-ideas is failing at?
I still don't agree with that. I think that many of the changes proposed here actually are bad (or at least not good enough), and that's why they don't make it in. When you say "no matter how good or bad" do you just mean "no matter how good or bad I personally think they are", or are you using some other metric for how good or bad the proposals "actually" are?
Use any metric you like, including whether the features end up getting implemented, and then compare that to the sentiment on this list, which is clearly summarized by this exact post. Basically you're saying that ideas here ARE mostly bad, and therefore should not be implemented, which is quite the opposite of what seems to happen elsewhere. The ideas that eventually succeed do so by getting support from places other than python-ideas, because of people whose attitudes are "the status quo is fine, all you're doing is saving <X>" (eg "a newline" from this thread). When you consider that a number of typing-based proposals offer, in a concrete sense, no more than that, it leaves you wondering whether (a) it's worth making type annotations better in ways that aren't applicable to the rest of the language, or (b) maybe it isn't about keystrokes after all, and there's something else going on. Look at the python-ideas sentiment about the match statement. Compare to the way that python-dev discussed it. ChrisA