> Is it that really obnoxious?

EXTREMELY!

>  Does using upper case for constants measurably slows down coders? Can you cite the actual papers describing such experiments that lead to this conclusion ? 

https://www.mity.com.au/blog/writing-readable-content-and-why-all-caps-is-so-hard-to-read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_caps#Readability
https://uxmovement.com/content/all-caps-hard-for-users-to-read/
https://practicaltypography.com/all-caps.html

> from my experience having a visual clue that a value is a constant or an enum is something pretty useful.

Do you have any proof that it's useful? Have you ever been tempted to modify math.pi or math.e simply because they're lower case? Have you ever stopped to wonder if those values change?

If the socket library used packet_host, packet_broadcast, etc. instead of PACKET_HOST, PACKET_BROADCAST, ETC. would you be confused about whether it's a good idea to rebind those variables? Would you be tempted to write the line of code: socket.packet_host = x?

It seems to me that nobody is actually considering what I'm actually talking about very carefully. They just assume that because all caps is used to convey information that information is actually important. Not just important, but important enough that it should be in PEP-8. They say I should just violate PEP-8 because it's not strictly enforced. It is strictly enforced in workplaces. I don't see why it can't be the other way around: PEP-8 doesn't say to use all caps, but if you want to it's OK.

> Surely, I'd hate reading a newspaper article where the editor generously sprinkled upper case words everywhere

Exactly. If it's an eye-sore in every other medium, then it seems likely to me, the only reason programmers don't consider it an eye-sore is they've become inured to it.

> but analogies only go so far, reading code have some similarities with reading prose, but still is not the same activity. 

CAN you articulate what is DIFFERENT about READING code that makes the ALL CAPS STYLE less offensive?

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 6:09 PM Marcos Eliziario <marcos.eliziario@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it that really obnoxious? Does using upper case for constants measurably slows down coders? Can you cite the actual papers describing such experiments that lead to this conclusion ? 
Because, from my experience having a visual clue that a value is a constant or an enum is something pretty useful. 
Surely, I'd hate reading a newspaper article where the editor generously sprinkled upper case words everywhere, but analogies only go so far, reading code have some similarities with reading prose, but still is not the same activity. 

Best,
Marcos Eliziario



Em ter, 29 de jan de 2019 às 20:30, Cameron Simpson <cs@cskk.id.au> escreveu:
On 29Jan2019 15:44, Jamesie Pic <jpic@yourlabs.org> wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 10:07 PM Bernardo Sulzbach
><bernardo@bernardosulzbach.com> wrote:
>> I'd suggest violating PEP-8 instead of trying to change it.
>
>TBH even my bash global environment variables tend to become more and
>more lowercase ...

If you mean _exported_ variables, then this is actually a really bad
idea.

The shell (sh, bash, ksh etc) makes no enforcement about naming for
exported vs unexported variables. And the exported namespace ($PATH etc)
is totally open ended, because any programme might expect arbitrary
optional exported names for easy tuning of defaults.

So, you think, since I only use variables I intend and only export
variables I plan to, I can do what I like. Example script:

  a=1
  b=2
  export b

So $b is now exported to subcommands, but not $a.

However: the "exported set" is initially the environment you inherit. 
Which means:

Any variable that _arrives_ in the environment is _already_ in the
exported set. So, another script:

  a=1
  b=2
  # not exporting either

If that gets called from the environment where you'd exported $b (eg
from the first script, which could easily be your ~/.profile or
~/.bashrc), then $b gets _modified_ and _exported_ to subcommands, even
though you hadn't asked. Because it came in initially from the
environment.

This means that you don't directly control what is local to the script
and what is exported (and thus can affect other scripts).

The _only_ way to maintain sanity is the existing convention: local
script variables use lowercase names and exported variables use
UPPERCASE names. With that in hand, and cooperation from everyone else,
you have predictable and reliable behaviour. And you have a nice visual
distinction in your code because you know immediately (by convention)
whether a variable is exported or not.

By exporting lowercase variables you violate this convention, and make
your script environment unsafe for others to use.

Do many many example scripts on the web do the reverse: using UPPERCASE
names for local script variables? Yes they do, and they do a disservice
to everyone.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson <cs@cskk.id.au>
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