On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Masklinn wrote:

but it still ends up with the format's semantics not necessarily mapping 1:1 to Python semantics

This is the right problem. If we take user approach to see what is the hard time users have - there are two different user stories: 1. Is about saving current state of a program by magically taking all object space (or a portion of) and save it in into a file Goals: Don't make me think Security: Not important (well, you're saving your program - what did you expect if everybody can alter it?) Concerns: Independence mismatch - what if source code for the saved state changes? - this needs further experiments Status: pickle or marshal seems to be designed just for this purpose, but does they provide an easy (one shot) solution for this scenario? 2. Is about saving data stored in Python objects into an some format Goals: Transform data into the format suitable for external requirement Goals: Exchange/alter data outside of Python process Goals: Make it easy, transparent and automatic (note no 'g' here) (May I call this Data Transformation Theory?) Basically, what we need it is to transform data. This requires some assumptions: 1. Transformation can be symmetrical (lossless) and non-symmetrical (lossy) 2. Non-symmetrical transformation can be made symmetrical by providing additional data about what is missed Now about Python serialization: 1. The problem is complex. 2. Up to the point that it becomes complicated 3. So there should be a systematic approach Systematic approach: 1. Define the scope of serialization (data in Python objects are fields and their values) 2. Define output format (JSON - for example) 3. Create mapping 3.1 Make sure lossy transformations are marked 3.2 Make sure 'additional data' to make them symmetrical is analysed 4. Create transformation rules 5. Alter rules to warn users (or raise) when transformation fails with explanation why 6. Summarize fundamental problems when transformations are not possible in documentation So, with such Data Transformation Framework it doesn't matter which is the target format. You can choose any. You can create your rules and test your particular chain of objects against default rules to see if transformation is possible, and if not - know why exactly. Full control -> confidence -> better tools and problem descriptions. Of course, such framework doesn't exist yet. ;) -- anatoly t.