It's been a few years so my memory must be rusty, but where is the https protocol dependent on the transport/SSL setup in that way? Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message:

From: Umbrella Code Date: January 27, 2013, 9:06:48 AM PST To: Guido van Rossum Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] PEP 3156: getting the socket or peer name from the transport

It's been a few years so my memory must be rusty, but where is the https protocol dependent on the transport/SSL setup in that way?

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 27, 2013, at 8:28 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:

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On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 4:16 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

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Le dimanche 27 janvier 2013 à 14:12 +0200, Yuval Greenfield a écrit :

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On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

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Most protocols should be written independent of transport. But it seems to me that a user might write an entire app as a "protocol".

Well, such an assumption can fall flat. For example, certificate checking in HTTPS expects that the transport is some version of TLS or SSL: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2818.html#section-3.1

I'm not sure I understood your reply. You'd be for an api that exposes the underlying transport? I meant to thsay that "an entire app" entails control over the subtleties of the underlying transport. What I meant is that the HTTP protocol needs to know that it is running over a secure transport, and it needs to fetch the server certificate from that transport (or, alternatively, it needs to have one of its callbacks called by the transport when the certificate is known). That's not entirely transport-agnostic.

Yeah, it sounds like in the end having access to the socket itself (if there is one) may be necessary. I suppose there are a number of different ways to handle that specific use case, but it seems clear that we can't anticipate all use cases. I'd rather have a simpler abstraction with an escape hatch than attempting to codify more use cases into the abstraction. We can always iterate on the design after Python 3.4, if there's a useful generalization we didn't anticipate.

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