Fwd: i18n and Python tracebacks

Sorry, I did not forward to the list by mistake. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Andre Roberge <andre.roberge@gmail.com> Date: Sat, May 15, 2010 at 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] i18n and Python tracebacks To: Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net>wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 11:02:35 -0300 Andre Roberge <andre.roberge@gmail.com> wrote:
1/0 Suivi d'erreur (appel le plus récent en dernier) : Fichier "<stdin>", à la ligne 1, dans <module> ZeroDivisionError: division entière ou modulo par zéro
I'm not sure it's a good idea. The fact that these messages are always in English makes it possible: - to share them with other developers in order to get help - to parse them in order to assert certain kind of errors
These messages are primarily meant for developers, not users.
I think you forget students (including one ones) that have to deal with such messages. Imagine you could start python with python --lang="en" your_script.py This would easily allow to share tracebacks with developers to get help.
(as a sidenote, I regularly get annoyed by gcc's "translated" error messages -- especially how crappy the French translation often is. It's always better to get a good English error message than a horrible French one)
True ... I know I'd choose English as a default myself for Python (even though, like you I believe, French is my first language). *But*, for beginners, this would be, I think, a great option. André
Antoine.
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On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Andre Roberge <andre.roberge@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry, I did not forward to the list by mistake. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Andre Roberge <andre.roberge@gmail.com> Date: Sat, May 15, 2010 at 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [Python-ideas] i18n and Python tracebacks To: Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net>
On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis@pitrou.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 11:02:35 -0300 Andre Roberge <andre.roberge@gmail.com> wrote:
1/0 Suivi d'erreur (appel le plus récent en dernier) : Fichier "<stdin>", à la ligne 1, dans <module> ZeroDivisionError: division entière ou modulo par zéro
I'm not sure it's a good idea. The fact that these messages are always in English makes it possible: - to share them with other developers in order to get help - to parse them in order to assert certain kind of errors
These messages are primarily meant for developers, not users.
I think you forget students (including one ones) that have to deal with such messages.
Yes, that our case here in Argentina too.
Imagine you could start python with
python --lang="en" your_script.py
This would easily allow to share tracebacks with developers to get help.
Even easier, it could be allowed to change LC_MESSAGES back to English at runtime or via shell environment variable before starting python, see: http://mx.grulic.org.ar/lurker/message/20100513.163151.1611cd68.es.html That's the way other software does it (like PostgreSQL as I said earlier), no new command line options or special development would be required.
(as a sidenote, I regularly get annoyed by gcc's "translated" error messages -- especially how crappy the French translation often is. It's always better to get a good English error message than a horrible French one)
True ... I know I'd choose English as a default myself for Python (even though, like you I believe, French is my first language). *But*, for beginners, this would be, I think, a great option.
I think so. BTW, with colaborative online translation tools like Pootle, it can be reviewed easily to fix bad translations. Best regards, Mariano Reingart http://www.python.org.ar http://www.sistemasagiles.com.ar http://reingart.blogspot.com

Hello André,
I think you forget students (including one ones) that have to deal with such messages.
It depends which students. If they want to become programmers, they have to eventually master English. Many first-hand resources, and the most vibrant programming communities, are in English. (it's like a medieval theologian needing to know Latin)
Imagine you could start python with
python --lang="en" your_script.py
I would do the reverse and have Python start untranslated by default. Only by specifying an option (e.g. "python -L"), or perhaps an environment variable, would you get the translation suited to your system settings. Having Python translate its error messages by default, however, could be a disaster. It would break programs which parse those error messages. It could also make error reporting to a developer more complicated. And, as I mentioned, I've seen two many dreadful translations to like the idea of French error messages in my Python. (how do you like « déréférencement du pointeur type-punned brisera les strictes d'aliases » ?)
True ... I know I'd choose English as a default myself for Python (even though, like you I believe, French is my first language).
Mine as well indeed. And I'm not even Canadian :) Regards Antoine.
participants (3)
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Andre Roberge
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Antoine Pitrou
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Mariano Reingart