Re: [Python-ideas] Is there a good reason to use * for multiplication?
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Blake Hyde <syrion@gmail.com> wrote:
Is anything gained from this addition?
To give a practical answer, I could say that for newbies it's one small confusion that could removed from the language. You and I have been programming for a long time so we take it for granted that * means multiplication, but for any other person that's just another weird idiosyncrasy that further alienates programming. Also, I think that using * for multiplication is ugly.
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Ram Rachum <ram.rachum@gmail.com> wrote:
You're emphatically not getting rid of *, though, which means 1) you're only making it harder for new people to learn and deal with, and b) you're at best not eliminating any perceived ugliness, in reality probably compounding it. Mike
Ram Rachum wrote:
Do you have any evidence that a substantial number of beginners are confused by * for multiplication, or that they have trouble remembering what it means once they've been told? If you do, is there further evidence that they would find a dot to be any clearer? The use of a raised dot to indicate multiplication of numbers is actually quite rare even in mathematics, and I would not expect anyone without a mathematical background to even be aware of it. In primary school we're taught that 'x' means multiplication. Later when we come to algebra, we're taught not to use any symbol at all, just write things next to each other. A dot is only used in rare cases where there would otherwise be ambiguity -- and even then it's often preferred to parenthesise things instead. And don't forget there's great potential for confusion with the decimal point. -- Greg
Ram Rachum writes:
Get Microsoft to agree and implement it in Excel and you might have a point. But as long as Excel uses * for multiplication, I don't think anybody who uses computers is going to have trouble learning this. Anyway, Python believes in TOOWTDI ("the one old way to do it").[1] Footnotes: [1] With apologies to Tim Peters.
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Ram Rachum <ram.rachum@gmail.com> wrote:
You're emphatically not getting rid of *, though, which means 1) you're only making it harder for new people to learn and deal with, and b) you're at best not eliminating any perceived ugliness, in reality probably compounding it. Mike
Ram Rachum wrote:
Do you have any evidence that a substantial number of beginners are confused by * for multiplication, or that they have trouble remembering what it means once they've been told? If you do, is there further evidence that they would find a dot to be any clearer? The use of a raised dot to indicate multiplication of numbers is actually quite rare even in mathematics, and I would not expect anyone without a mathematical background to even be aware of it. In primary school we're taught that 'x' means multiplication. Later when we come to algebra, we're taught not to use any symbol at all, just write things next to each other. A dot is only used in rare cases where there would otherwise be ambiguity -- and even then it's often preferred to parenthesise things instead. And don't forget there's great potential for confusion with the decimal point. -- Greg
Ram Rachum writes:
Get Microsoft to agree and implement it in Excel and you might have a point. But as long as Excel uses * for multiplication, I don't think anybody who uses computers is going to have trouble learning this. Anyway, Python believes in TOOWTDI ("the one old way to do it").[1] Footnotes: [1] With apologies to Tim Peters.
participants (5)
-
Greg Ewing -
Mathias Panzenböck -
Mike Graham -
Ram Rachum -
Stephen J. Turnbull