I think that could be a good idea to put colored dots on idle's scroll bar for each def or class created, each got its own color, that's not a big conceptual improvement but that could be helpfull to show the structure, show what is what and which class is in which class
On May 10, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Alexandre Boulay <alexandre.boulay59@gmail.com> wrote:
I think that could be a good idea to put colored dots on idle's scroll bar for each def or class created, each got its own color, that's not a big conceptual improvement but that could be helpfull to show the structure, show what is what and which class is in which class _______________________________________________
Alexandre, Sounds like a great idea to me! I recommend you open up an enhancement issue on bugs.python.org then write a patch. You could make this an IDLE extension for the editor window that way people could turn it off/on as they desire. Another thought is to create the issue then post a link and a brief email to the idle-dev mailing list.
On 5/10/2013 8:52 AM, Todd V. Rovito wrote:
On May 10, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Alexandre Boulay <alexandre.boulay59@gmail.com> wrote:
I think that could be a good idea to put colored dots on idle's scroll bar for each def or class created, each got its own color,
I cannot really understand what you are proposing. The scroll bar is for scrolling, and it has the arrow buttons and the bar itself that would interfere with placing dots. Furthermore, scroll bars are widgets defined by tk and as far as I know, IDLE has no control over the detailed appearance.
that's not a big conceptual improvement but that could be helpfull to show the structure, show what is what and which class is in which class _______________________________________________
Furthermore, I do not see how dots would really show that structure. Are you familiar with with the Code Context option on the Options menu? Although I think it needs some polishing (to show all context, not just the three innermost lines), it already does what you seem to want, but with indented names rather than by nameless dots.
Alexandre, Sounds like a great idea to me! I recommend you open up an enhancement issue on bugs.python.org
If, after looking as the existing Code Context option, you still have an idea for improvememt, please post to idle-dev first. Todd, please don't suggest that people post half-baked, possibly impossible to code, ideas to the tracker. The tracker already has a thousand enhancement requests. Many are dead clutter. Others need discussion that they will never get on the tracker. In general, I think it is much better for code ideas to come first to this list or, for Idle ideas, idle-dev, to see if they are new, feasible, and have sufficient support to be applied once coded. Terry
On 5/10/2013 1:16 PM, Terry Jan Reedy wrote:
Are you familiar with with the Code Context option on the Options menu? Although I think it needs some polishing (to show all context, not just the three innermost lines), it already does what you seem to want, but with indented names rather than by nameless dots.
IDLE is an odd beast. I never knew this existed! --Ned.
On May 10, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
Todd, please don't suggest that people post half-baked, possibly impossible to code, ideas to the tracker. The tracker already has a thousand enhancement requests. Many are dead clutter. Others need discussion that they will never get on the tracker. In general, I think it is much better for code ideas to come first to this list or, for Idle ideas, idle-dev, to see if they are new, feasible, and have sufficient support to be applied once coded. No problem I won't do it again.
Alexandre, I would like to talk about your idea more so feel free to bring the conversation over to idle-dev. Thanks.
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On 5/10/2013 8:52 AM, Todd V. Rovito wrote:
On May 10, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Alexandre Boulay <alexandre.boulay59@gmail.com> wrote:
I think that could be a good idea to put colored dots on idle's scroll bar for each def or class created, each got its own color,
I cannot really understand what you are proposing. The scroll bar is for scrolling, and it has the arrow buttons and the bar itself that would interfere with placing dots. Furthermore, scroll bars are widgets defined by tk and as far as I know, IDLE has no control over the detailed appearance.
I suspect he is suggesting that the scrollbar represent position in the file in terms of "3 top level classes above, 2 below" instead of just by line count. This sounds straightforward as an overlay graphic. Perhaps even changing the navigation so that clicking on the scrollbar at 1/3 of the way down will move you to 1/3 of the way down the file, instead of "one page up from where you current are." This would no longer be a standard scrollbar, but it might well be better. -jJ
On Mon, May 13, 2013, at 10:57, Jim Jewett wrote:
Perhaps even changing the navigation so that clicking on the scrollbar at 1/3 of the way down will move you to 1/3 of the way down the file, instead of "one page up from where you current are." This would no longer be a standard scrollbar, but it might well be better.
Some platforms' standard scrollbars do this on a shift-click or a middle-click. If you're really talking about designing a custom scrollbar control, you should be looking at what various platforms do. -- Random832
This is just pure bike-shedding, but you should really check out - PyCharm's scrollbar, with its colored dots for errors/etc. - Sublime Text's minimap/scrollbar Both of which are really really nice On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 11:10 AM, <random832@fastmail.us> wrote:
On Mon, May 13, 2013, at 10:57, Jim Jewett wrote:
Perhaps even changing the navigation so that clicking on the scrollbar at 1/3 of the way down will move you to 1/3 of the way down the file, instead of "one page up from where you current are." This would no longer be a standard scrollbar, but it might well be better.
Some platforms' standard scrollbars do this on a shift-click or a middle-click.
If you're really talking about designing a custom scrollbar control, you should be looking at what various platforms do.
-- Random832 _______________________________________________ Python-ideas mailing list Python-ideas@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps even changing the navigation so that clicking on the scrollbar at 1/3 of the way down will move you to 1/3 of the way down the file, instead of "one page up from where you current are." This would no longer be a standard scrollbar, but it might well be better.
Non-standard scroll bar sounds bad to me. Here's how this feature works in Eclipse/pydev http://i.imgur.com/kQrc5n0.png Basically the scrollbar has another small strip next to it. So the locations are clickable, and they bring you to the right place, without breaking the normal scroll bar behavior. Yuval
On 5/13/2013 11:20 AM, Yuval Greenfield wrote:
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com <mailto:jimjjewett@gmail.com>> wrote:
Perhaps even changing the navigation so that clicking on the scrollbar at 1/3 of the way down will move you to 1/3 of the way down the file, instead of "one page up from where you current are." This would no longer be a standard scrollbar, but it might well be better.
Non-standard scroll bar sounds bad to me. Here's how this feature works in Eclipse/pydev http://i.imgur.com/kQrc5n0.png
That reminds me of the merge conflict strips in, for instance kdiff3.
Basically the scrollbar has another small strip next to it. So the locations are clickable, and they bring you to the right place, without breaking the normal scroll bar behavior.
Assuming that putting dots on a strip beside text is feasible with tkinter, that would be a possible optional extension. There are already proposals for line number strips for files and prompt strips for the shell. Terry
It's probably worth looking at a slew of different IDEs (Eclipse, Visual Studio, Xcode, CodeBlocks, etc.) to survey all the ways this kind of thing is done, before deciding what's the best match for idle. Sent from a random iPhone On May 13, 2013, at 9:41, Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On 5/13/2013 11:20 AM, Yuval Greenfield wrote:
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com <mailto:jimjjewett@gmail.com>> wrote:
Perhaps even changing the navigation so that clicking on the scrollbar at 1/3 of the way down will move you to 1/3 of the way down the file, instead of "one page up from where you current are." This would no longer be a standard scrollbar, but it might well be better.
Non-standard scroll bar sounds bad to me. Here's how this feature works in Eclipse/pydev http://i.imgur.com/kQrc5n0.png
That reminds me of the merge conflict strips in, for instance kdiff3.
Basically the scrollbar has another small strip next to it. So the locations are clickable, and they bring you to the right place, without breaking the normal scroll bar behavior.
Assuming that putting dots on a strip beside text is feasible with tkinter, that would be a possible optional extension. There are already proposals for line number strips for files and prompt strips for the shell.
Terry
_______________________________________________ Python-ideas mailing list Python-ideas@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas
On Mon, 13 May 2013 10:57:43 -0400 Jim Jewett <jimjjewett@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Terry Jan Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
On 5/10/2013 8:52 AM, Todd V. Rovito wrote:
On May 10, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Alexandre Boulay <alexandre.boulay59@gmail.com> wrote:
I think that could be a good idea to put colored dots on idle's scroll bar for each def or class created, each got its own color,
I cannot really understand what you are proposing. The scroll bar is for scrolling, and it has the arrow buttons and the bar itself that would interfere with placing dots. Furthermore, scroll bars are widgets defined by tk and as far as I know, IDLE has no control over the detailed appearance.
I suspect he is suggesting that the scrollbar represent position in the file in terms of "3 top level classes above, 2 below" instead of just by line count. This sounds straightforward as an overlay graphic.
Perhaps even changing the navigation so that clicking on the scrollbar at 1/3 of the way down will move you to 1/3 of the way down the file, instead of "one page up from where you current are." This would no longer be a standard scrollbar, but it might well be better.
I wouldn't want to disturb an Idle discussion, but changing the behaviour of standard widgets is most often a terrible idea (unless perhaps you're an UI wizard). You shouldn't do it. Regards Antoine.
participants (10)
-
Alexandre Boulay -
Andrew Barnert -
Antoine Pitrou -
Haoyi Li -
Jim Jewett -
Ned Batchelder -
random832＠fastmail.us -
Terry Jan Reedy -
Todd V. Rovito -
Yuval Greenfield