Hi Oleksii Bidiuk, While access to the native Python libraries is apprently a nice feature of "Python for .NET", I don't think it is very useful in real-world .NET centric projects (in a corporate environment for example). An implementation like IronPython restricts itself to the use of native .NET features and thus cannot cause dangerous side-effects that inflict memory leak for example. With "Python for .NET", that is not the case. Therefore, in my opinion, IronPython looks like an implementation that is potentially useful for real-world projects, while "Python for .NET" looks more experimental in its nature... Emmanuel On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 09:55 +0100, Oleksii Bidiuk wrote:

Hi Emmanuel,

The basic differences are highlighted in several discussions like

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1168914/ironpython-vs-python-net

In short IronPython is a complete managed implementation of Python interpreter in .NET (developed parallel to the regular Python or CPython), just like Jython. Python for .NET on the other hand is a .NET wrapper around the CPython interpreter providing access to the CPython from .NET application and back. There are differences in implementation (e.g. no GIL in IronPython) and in the accessibility of the libraries (no access to the C libraries from IronPython out of box).

I am also interested in any hints to the roadmaps of the both products. IronPython seem to be more mature, but it is also way more effort than Python for .NET. So far I have difficulties to choose strategically for either one as both are lagging behind the solid community of CPython. Comments are more than welcome!

2011/1/10 Emmanuel Lambert Dear all,

I was wondering : what is the difference between PythonDotNet and IronPython? It looks like IronPython is rapidly becoming a maturing implementation for the .NET platform, with also a plugin for Visual Studio becoming available : http://ironpython.net/

The distinction between the two implementations, future roadmaps, etc, is not clear to me. Any comments are welcome...

regards Emmanuel

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-- oleksii

There are also logistical and political considerations. Some environments are tied to cpython, and switching to IronPython is impossible (such as the python environment included with Autodesk Maya). Also, many engineers have religious leanings, and would never tie their environment to .NET or other MicroSoft technologies. Adding .NET functionality "on the side" is usually an easier sell. -----Original Message----- From: pythondotnet-bounces+btribble=ea.com@python.org [mailto:pythondotnet-bounces+btribble=ea.com@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Tigges Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:12 AM To: emmanuel.lambert@intec.ugent.be Cc: pythondotnet@python.org Subject: Re: [Python.NET] PythonDotNet - IronPyton On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 4:18 AM, Emmanuel Lambert wrote:

Hi Oleksii Bidiuk,

While access to the native Python libraries is apprently a nice feature of "Python for .NET", I don't think it is very useful in real-world .NET centric projects (in a corporate environment for example). An implementation like IronPython restricts itself to the use of native .NET features and thus cannot cause dangerous side-effects that inflict memory leak for example. With "Python for .NET", that is not the case. Therefore, in my opinion, IronPython looks like an implementation that is potentially useful for real-world projects, while "Python for .NET" looks more experimental in its nature...

Emmanuel

Emmanual, You're very mistaken. In our "corporate environment" (a large game studio), we use both. IronPython is used where we want to extend a .net environment with python scripting capabilities. PythonDotNet is used when we want to use our .net assemblies from another program which has cpython embedded. PythonDotNet allows us to extend Maya & MotionBuilder by leveraging all the .net code we write for our tools. Your opinion is yours, but trust me, while PythonDotNet is a little rough around the edges it is hugely beneficial to us and others. We use a cpython distribution augmented with PythonDotNet as our standard python for distribution to client machines. The only place we use IronPython is embedded in our tools. The start up time for IronPython (about .5 secs) the last time I checked pretty much makes it useless. Mark.

On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 09:55 +0100, Oleksii Bidiuk wrote:

...

Hi Emmanuel,

The basic differences are highlighted in several discussions like

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1168914/ironpython-vs-python-net

In short IronPython is a complete managed implementation of Python interpreter in .NET (developed parallel to the regular Python or CPython), just like Jython. Python for .NET on the other hand is a .NET wrapper around the CPython interpreter providing access to the CPython from .NET application and back. There are differences in implementation (e.g. no GIL in IronPython) and in the accessibility of the libraries (no access to the C libraries from IronPython out of box).

I am also interested in any hints to the roadmaps of the both products. IronPython seem to be more mature, but it is also way more effort than Python for .NET. So far I have difficulties to choose strategically for either one as both are lagging behind the solid community of CPython. Comments are more than welcome!

2011/1/10 Emmanuel Lambert         Dear all,

        I was wondering : what is the difference between PythonDotNet         and         IronPython? It looks like IronPython is rapidly becoming a         maturing         implementation for the .NET platform, with also a plugin for         Visual         Studio becoming available : http://ironpython.net/

        The distinction between the two implementations, future         roadmaps, etc,         is not clear to me. Any comments are welcome...

        regards         Emmanuel

        _________________________________________________         Python.NET mailing list - PythonDotNet@python.org         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythondotnet

-- oleksii

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Hello Mark and others, thank you for the clarification. Very interesting, I hadn't though of these two distinct use cases, i.e. : -on the one hand embedding Python scripting in .NET applications -on the other hand calling .NET assemblies from applications that otherwise run outside of the .NET scope. My background with .NET is more into monolytic business applications that don't have embedded scripting. It might be worthwhile to upgrade the "Python for .NET" website and clarify these different use cases. Both technologies now seem to have a clear use case and rationale. good evening. Emmanuel Quoting "Mark Tigges" :

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 4:18 AM, Emmanuel Lambert wrote:

...

Hi Oleksii Bidiuk,

While access to the native Python libraries is apprently a nice feature of "Python for .NET", I don't think it is very useful in real-world .NET centric projects (in a corporate environment for example). An implementation like IronPython restricts itself to the use of native .NET features and thus cannot cause dangerous side-effects that inflict memory leak for example. With "Python for .NET", that is not the case. Therefore, in my opinion, IronPython looks like an implementation that is potentially useful for real-world projects, while "Python for .NET" looks more experimental in its nature...

Emmanuel

Emmanual,

You're very mistaken. In our "corporate environment" (a large game studio), we use both. IronPython is used where we want to extend a .net environment with python scripting capabilities. PythonDotNet is used when we want to use our .net assemblies from another program which has cpython embedded. PythonDotNet allows us to extend Maya & MotionBuilder by leveraging all the .net code we write for our tools.

Your opinion is yours, but trust me, while PythonDotNet is a little rough around the edges it is hugely beneficial to us and others.

We use a cpython distribution augmented with PythonDotNet as our standard python for distribution to client machines. The only place we use IronPython is embedded in our tools. The start up time for IronPython (about .5 secs) the last time I checked pretty much makes it useless.

Mark.

...

On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 09:55 +0100, Oleksii Bidiuk wrote:

...

Hi Emmanuel,

The basic differences are highlighted in several discussions like

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1168914/ironpython-vs-python-net

In short IronPython is a complete managed implementation of Python interpreter in .NET (developed parallel to the regular Python or CPython), just like Jython. Python for .NET on the other hand is a .NET wrapper around the CPython interpreter providing access to the CPython from .NET application and back. There are differences in implementation (e.g. no GIL in IronPython) and in the accessibility of the libraries (no access to the C libraries from IronPython out of box).

I am also interested in any hints to the roadmaps of the both products. IronPython seem to be more mature, but it is also way more effort than Python for .NET. So far I have difficulties to choose strategically for either one as both are lagging behind the solid community of CPython. Comments are more than welcome!

2011/1/10 Emmanuel Lambert         Dear all,

        I was wondering : what is the difference between PythonDotNet         and         IronPython? It looks like IronPython is rapidly becoming a         maturing         implementation for the .NET platform, with also a plugin for         Visual         Studio becoming available : http://ironpython.net/

        The distinction between the two implementations, future         roadmaps, etc,         is not clear to me. Any comments are welcome...

        regards         Emmanuel

        _________________________________________________         Python.NET mailing list - PythonDotNet@python.org         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythondotnet

-- oleksii

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