Hi, With the pending closing of the scipy.sandbox (anybody want to cough up more details on that, btw? When? How?), I want to move numexpr to its own project, likely hosted on Google Code. It's not something I think is "sciencey" enough for a scikit (plus, I don't like sharing a bug database with other, separate, projects), and it's more like weave (but simpler). Tim H., Francesc, Ivan? You're the main contributors; does this work for you? -- |>|\/|< /------------------------------------------------------------------\ |David M. Cooke http://arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca/dmc/ |cookedm@physics.mcmaster.ca
On Dec 23, 2007 10:06 PM, David M. Cooke <cookedm@physics.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
With the pending closing of the scipy.sandbox (anybody want to cough up more details on that, btw? When? How?), I want to move numexpr to its own project, likely hosted on Google Code. It's not something I think is "sciencey" enough for a scikit (plus, I don't like sharing a bug database with other, separate, projects), and it's more like weave (but simpler).
I will send out more details later tonight (I will write it up now); but the short answer is that we would like to remove the sandbox for the 0.7.0 release. Most of the code will move to scikits, but some will move directly into scipy. Thanks, -- Jarrod Millman Computational Infrastructure for Research Labs 10 Giannini Hall, UC Berkeley phone: 510.643.4014 http://cirl.berkeley.edu/
A Monday 24 December 2007, David M. Cooke escrigué:
Hi,
With the pending closing of the scipy.sandbox (anybody want to cough up more details on that, btw? When? How?), I want to move numexpr to its own project, likely hosted on Google Code. It's not something I think is "sciencey" enough for a scikit (plus, I don't like sharing a bug database with other, separate, projects), and it's more like weave (but simpler).
Tim H., Francesc, Ivan? You're the main contributors; does this work for you?
Sounds good here. I'd like to help fixing some things like those listed in ticket #529: * Implement more functions, like exp, ln, log10 and others. * The setup.py is too terse, and seems to support only the gcc compiler. More work should be done to include support other compilers, and most specially MSVC. Also, MSVC should be directed to compile with optimization level 1 only, in order to get reasonable compile times. But that can wait until numexpr is in Google Code. It's nice to see numexpr taking flight as a stand-alone project :) Cheers, --
0,0< Francesc Altet http://www.carabos.com/ V V Cárabos Coop. V. Enjoy Data "-"
Hello, I would like remove numexpr from the scipy sandbox now that it is a stand alone project: http://code.google.com/p/numexpr/ If there are any problems with this, please let me know in the next couple of days. Otherwise I am going to go ahead and clean it up. Thanks, -- Jarrod Millman Computational Infrastructure for Research Labs 10 Giannini Hall, UC Berkeley phone: 510.643.4014 http://cirl.berkeley.edu/
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008, Jarrod Millman apparently wrote:
I would like remove numexpr from the scipy sandbox now that it is a stand alone project: http://code.google.com/p/numexpr/
Out of curiosity, why is it not a scikit, and how are new users supposed to find it now? (I suppose David and Tim have already discussed this.) Cheers, Alan Isaac
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 6:53 AM, Alan G Isaac <aisaac@american.edu> wrote:
Out of curiosity, why is it not a scikit, and how are new users supposed to find it now? (I suppose David and Tim have already discussed this.)
As far as I recall, the only discussion has been this thread: http://projects.scipy.org/pipermail/scipy-dev/2007-December/008103.html I found it by searching for numexpr using "numexpr google code". I included the link in my original email, so that it would be easier to find. -- Jarrod Millman Computational Infrastructure for Research Labs 10 Giannini Hall, UC Berkeley phone: 510.643.4014 http://cirl.berkeley.edu/
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008, Jarrod Millman apparently wrote:
http://projects.scipy.org/pipermail/scipy-dev/2007-December/008103.html
Oh yes, I had forgotten about that. A user's perspective: 1. I do not accept the "not 'sciency' enough" argument. 2. I understand the need for separate/separable bug databases, and this seems like a general problem to be addressed for scikits. I would hate to see scikits start spinning off to new locations based on this consideration. 3. I think a tendency for projects to "cluster" around SciPy is very healthy for SciPy as a whole. At the *very* least I would hope to see such projects list themself at the (nonexistent!) page http://www.scipy.org/SciPyPackages. By the way, <URL:http://www.scipy.org/SciPyPackages/NumExpr> will need to be changed ... Cheers, Alan Isaac
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Alan G Isaac <aisaac@american.edu> wrote:
1. I do not accept the "not 'sciency' enough" argument.
I can't really speak for the authors, but I would guess they were looking for a large audience. Rather than numexpr being rejected from the scikit's namespace as "not 'sciency' enough", the authors wanted their project not to appear to be restricted to scientific uses. You will need to convince the authors that their code should be a scikit, rather than a stand-alone project. Personally, I think it makes complete sense to be a stand-alone project; but I would be happy to see it as a scikit as well.
2. I understand the need for separate/separable bug databases, and this seems like a general problem to be addressed for scikits. I would hate to see scikits start spinning off to new locations based on this consideration.
As far as I can tell, this doesn't seem to have been an issue for them. I believe this is more of an issue for the OpenOpt project.
3. I think a tendency for projects to "cluster" around SciPy is very healthy for SciPy as a whole. At the *very* least I would hope to see such projects list themself at the (nonexistent!) page http://www.scipy.org/SciPyPackages.
Go for it! I would prefer you call the page http://www.scipy.org/SciKits. Even better would be to spend some time working on the scikits' project page and then adding a link to the scipy page somewhere. That way you won't have to keep two pages in synch. This is much needed work and would go a long way to providing more publicity to the scikits and would be much appreciated work.
By the way, <URL:http://www.scipy.org/SciPyPackages/NumExpr> will need to be changed ...
It is a wiki, so go ahead and update it yourself. (I am assuming the authors haven't added access restriction; if they have, you should send them an email directly with your suggested changes.) Thanks, -- Jarrod Millman Computational Infrastructure for Research Labs 10 Giannini Hall, UC Berkeley phone: 510.643.4014 http://cirl.berkeley.edu/
On Apr 7, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Jarrod Millman wrote:
I can't really speak for the authors, but I would guess they were looking for a large audience. Rather than numexpr being rejected from the scikit's namespace as "not 'sciency' enough", the authors wanted their project not to appear to be restricted to scientific uses.
This is just a guess, but they also might not want to have appeared to require SciPy, specifically. Speaking from our own experience, although FiPy uses and recommends SciPy, we don't require it because it's frankly a headache to install and we know from experience that the support requests from our users are going to come to us, not to the SciPy developers. -- Jonathan E. Guyer, PhD Metallurgy Division National Institute of Standards and Technology <http://www.metallurgy.nist.gov/>
Jonathan Guyer <guyer@nist.gov> writes:
On Apr 7, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Jarrod Millman wrote:
I can't really speak for the authors, but I would guess they were looking for a large audience. Rather than numexpr being rejected from the scikit's namespace as "not 'sciency' enough", the authors wanted their project not to appear to be restricted to scientific uses.
This is just a guess, but they also might not want to have appeared to require SciPy, specifically. Speaking from our own experience, although FiPy uses and recommends SciPy, we don't require it because it's frankly a headache to install and we know from experience that the support requests from our users are going to come to us, not to the SciPy developers.
Numexpr, even as part of scipy.sandbox, didn't require other parts of SciPy, so scipy.sandbox really was just a convenient place to park it. (It's much like weave in that respect.) Heck, it required Python 2.4 (scipy requires 2.3). So, yes, I see removing the association with SciPy as a plus. It's also used by PyTables (although currently embedded, not as a dependency), which is another numpy-using, non-scipy-requiring project. (As to a large audience, well, if there are other users out there of numexpr, I'd love to here from you! I'll do a 1.0 release soon.) -- |>|\/|< /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ |David M. Cooke http://arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca/dmc/ |cookedm@physics.mcmaster.ca
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Alan G Isaac <aisaac@american.edu> wrote:
2. I understand the need for separate/separable bug databases, and this seems like a general problem to be addressed for scikits. I would hate to see scikits start spinning off to new locations based on this consideration.
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008, Jarrod Millman apparently wrote:
As far as I can tell, this doesn't seem to have been an issue for them.
Quoting from: <URL:http://projects.scipy.org/pipermail/scipy-dev/2007-December/008101.html> "I don't like sharing a bug database with other, separate, projects" Cheers, Alan Isaac
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Alan G Isaac <aisaac@american.edu> wrote:
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008, Jarrod Millman apparently wrote:
As far as I can tell, this doesn't seem to have been an issue for them.
Quoting from: <URL:http://projects.scipy.org/pipermail/scipy-dev/2007-December/008101.html>
"I don't like sharing a bug database with other, separate, projects"
Sorry I am not getting enough sleep. OK, so that is another reason they don't want to make this a scikit. -- Jarrod Millman Computational Infrastructure for Research Labs 10 Giannini Hall, UC Berkeley phone: 510.643.4014 http://cirl.berkeley.edu/
"Jarrod Millman" <millman@berkeley.edu> writes:
Hello,
I would like remove numexpr from the scipy sandbox now that it is a stand alone project: http://code.google.com/p/numexpr/
If there are any problems with this, please let me know in the next couple of days. Otherwise I am going to go ahead and clean it up.
Thanks,
No problem, I was going to do it myself as soon as I got a release of numexpr out based on this code. I don't think there are any hold-ups, so I'll do that soon. -- |>|\/|< /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ |David M. Cooke http://arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca/dmc/ |cookedm@physics.mcmaster.ca
participants (6)
-
Alan G Isaac -
cookedm＠physics.mcmaster.ca -
David M. Cooke
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Francesc Altet -
Jarrod Millman -
Jonathan Guyer