Re: [SciPy-dev] Roadmap for SciPy/Numpy
I would like to know if there is somme kind of roadmap for the developpement of SciPy/Numpy, I can't find it on the web site, neither on this mailing list.
There is a roadmap for everything except the software itself (docs, releases, etc.) in http://scipy.org/Developer_Zone (scroll to the bottom). The Developer_Zone page is the right place to list people and to put a more formal roadmap/timetable. But, a timeline can't happen until people step up to lead the component efforts. It seems the community is in the perpetual state of having a *lot* of ready workers, but only a few committed leaders. We need: Someone to lead the creation of binary installers for all platforms, especially the various Linux distros. Someone to write a tutorial user manual that is not field-specific and that has plenty of worked examples. It must be presented as (at least) a single PDF plus example zip file. Someone to lead the scipy release team, as Travis does for numpy, and push actively toward a 1.0 release. This may be progressing quietly, below the radar, or may be stalled, I don't know. There was activity as recently as last December. We worked out the priorities and even some of the broad parameters of these projects years ago, but only a few of the identified goals have had any progress (notably the unification of numarray and Numeric, and ongoing maintenance of numpy, thank you Travis!). A road map is a good thing, but without more willing leaders, we will continue to have little progress in these key areas. On the positive side, the number of willing workers is high, so when someone does step up to lead, they will have a lot of help. I expect that a good leader who can delegate and manage effectively will put in no more time than one of the workers, say 4-10 hours a week. The situation of the lagging binary installers is most sad, and is the main thing that keeps people away from this software. Almost everyone I know in physics, and many people in astronomy, know about SciPy. However, they're all still waiting for it to "stabilize", which to them means they can install it with yum or synaptic or whatever (and it works every time when they do), and they see regular releases, and they see all the packages and platforms and OS versions supported for each release right from the start. Seeing a tarball for the current release, and just an outdated binary for *their* platform for some ancient releases, is insulting to them. It also indicates a project in danger of not having the critical mass to stay afloat for the long haul, so people rightly hesitate in committing their projects to python. We know better, but the only way to communicate that (and to get the large number of new users that would result) is to make binary packages in the traditional way, and keep them current. Since we've called for people to step forward and take charge of these areas before, do folks have ideas on ways to bring a financial incentive to bear? I've talked to more than a few people who could throw $10k at the problem, as could I, but there isn't an easy way to ensure long-term stability of a hired position. Would Enthough be willing to sell "support" for $5k a contract, and hire someone on a contract basis for, say, $50k to build binaries and write docs that happen also to go on the web site and get made part of the project? The supported entities would get to decide which platforms to do first, and would have some say in how it was done. Thoughts? --jh--
I would like to know if there is somme kind of roadmap for the developpement of SciPy/Numpy, I can't find it on the web site, neither on this mailing list.
There is a roadmap for everything except the software itself (docs, releases, etc.) in http://scipy.org/Developer_Zone (scroll to the bottom). The Developer_Zone page is the right place to list people and to put a more formal roadmap/timetable. But, a timeline can't happen until people step up to lead the component efforts. I know about this page, unfortunately a few links seem to be outdated. For example, the link "roadmap" doesn't work. After some investigations, I think I found the good link, i.e: http://projects.scipy.org/pipermail/scipy-dev/2004-October/002419.html Could you please tell me if it is the good one so that I can correct it on the wiki? Moreover, the link "proposal for wiki workflow" is obviously wrong, as it is
Le Jeudi 29 Mars 2007 17:25, Joe Harrington a écrit : directed to the "junkfilter" mailing-list on sourceforge.net. I could not find the true link, and googling did not help. Anyway, thank you for all the details you gave. It helps a lot! -- Gilles
I would like to know if there is somme kind of roadmap for the developpement of SciPy/Numpy, I can't find it on the web site, neither = on this mailing list.
There is a roadmap for everything except the software itself (docs, releases, etc.) in http://scipy.org/Developer_Zone (scroll to the bottom). The Developer_Zone page is the right place to list people and to put a more formal roadmap/timetable. But, a timeline can't happen until people step up to lead the component efforts. I know about this page, unfortunately a few links seem to be outdated. For example, the link "roadmap" doesn't work. After some investigations, I think I found the good link, i.e: http://projects.scipy.org/pipermail/scipy-dev/2004-October/002419.html Could you please tell me if it is the good one so that I can correct it on the wiki? Moreover, the link "proposal for wiki workflow" is obviously wrong, as it is directed to the "junkfilter" mailing-list on sourceforge.net. I could not find the true link, and googling did not help.
Yes, that is the right link. I found the other one and fixed both, and added comments to help us find them again when they break next time. Thanks for letting me know about them! --jh--
> Yes, that is the right link. I found the other one and fixed both, > and added comments to help us find them again when they break next > time. Thanks for letting me know about them! > > --jh-- Thanks a lot, these links a really helpfull to understand the way you want things to be done in SciPy. Now, from what I understood, there must be a "private area" aimed at contributors only (I reckon it's the developper zone), where all developpement of code and documentation should happen, and the main site should be a "public area" where only stable and clean features and documentation are presented. For example, if I want to add some screenshots in the "ScreenShots" of the wiki, I must: - edit the ScreenShots page on the wiki (this page is only accessible from the MigratingFromPlone page, i.e. private area) - ask on this mailing list if these screenshots are good, or if I must change anything. - Once everyone is happy with the screenshot page, I can put a link to this ScreenShots page on the public area (for example on the main page). Did I understand well? I just don't want to edit the wiki the wrong way... -- Gilles
Gilles G. wrote:
Yes, that is the right link. I found the other one and fixed both, and added comments to help us find them again when they break next time. Thanks for letting me know about them!
--jh--
Thanks a lot, these links a really helpfull to understand the way you want things to be done in SciPy. Now, from what I understood, there must be a "private area" aimed at contributors only (I reckon it's the developper zone), where all developpement of code and documentation should happen, and the main site should be a "public area" where only stable and clean features and documentation are presented. For example, if I want to add some screenshots in the "ScreenShots" of the wiki, I must: - edit the ScreenShots page on the wiki (this page is only accessible from the MigratingFromPlone page, i.e. private area) - ask on this mailing list if these screenshots are good, or if I must change anything. - Once everyone is happy with the screenshot page, I can put a link to this ScreenShots page on the public area (for example on the main page). Did I understand well? I just don't want to edit the wiki the wrong way...
Dear Gilles, That roadmap document pre-dates the current scipy wiki(s) and is therefore slightly out of date in that regard. As you note, there are two wikis, but the distinction is not public/private but rather user/developer. Basically, the developer site (the Trac instance) is for reporting and searching bugs, browsing the source code, and discussing the future development of scipy and numpy. The "user" wiki http://scipy.org is the place where we want to have the best user-oriented documentation, download links, news, screenshots, "how-to-help" pages, and so on. As far as uploading screenshots, please upload them directly on the ScreenShots page. We're big fans of editorial-decisions-by-wiki around here. If someone doesn't like it, it's up to them to get rid of it or modify it. And if you need permissions to do something you can't do, ask someone on the EditorsGroup page to add you to that page. My feeling is that as long as your information is accurate and your screenshots look half decent, people will appreciate that you are spending the time to contribute.
I would like to know if there is somme kind of roadmap for the developpement of SciPy/Numpy, I can't find it on the web site, neither on this mailing list.
There is a roadmap for everything except the software itself (docs, releases, etc.) in http://scipy.org/Developer_Zone (scroll to the bottom). The Developer_Zone page is the right place to list people and to put a more formal roadmap/timetable. But, a timeline can't happen until people step up to lead the component efforts.
It seems the community is in the perpetual state of having a *lot* of ready workers, but only a few committed leaders. We need:
Someone to lead the creation of binary installers for all platforms, especially the various Linux distros. Concerning this one, my understanding is that official deb are available for debian etch and the next ubuntu, to be released in a few weeks. Maybe we can incorporate their effort in the numpy sources, a bit like
Joe Harrington wrote: this is done for pytables ? So providing binaries for every new release would be much easier ? Also, the main problem for installing numpy and scipy is to fullfill the dependencies, right ? (atlas, etc...) ? I've started to take a look at the build system from openSuse, which may be useful towards the goal of providing binaries (for linux, obviously; I don't know anything about the difficulies to provide windows or mac os X binaries): http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service I hope to be able to provide preliminary binary builds (eg rpm) of ATLAS usable by numpy/scipy really soon, actually (I just have to familiarize a bit more with RPM; I am much more familiar with deb packaging). cheers, David
participants (5)
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Andrew Straw -
David Cournapeau -
Gilles G. -
jh@physics.ucf.edu -
Joe Harrington