I could not help noticing that OpenCD has no scientific tools. It seems the Enthought enhance Python distribution meets the inclusion criteria: http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/criteria.php fwiw, Alan Isaac
Alan G Isaac wrote:
I could not help noticing that OpenCD has no scientific tools. It seems the Enthought enhance Python distribution meets the inclusion criteria: http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/criteria.php
You're probably right that it would be nice for some folks. However, as it stands, I don't know how eager they'd be to add ~100MB of software (compressed...uncompressed it's probably twice that) that only scientific and mathematics folks would have a serious interest in. Number four on the list of qualifications: 4) Be mainstream and functional. It should compare favorably with proprietary alternatives. While the packages in Enthon compare favorably to proprietary alternatives, and the next release will be quite slick, as such things go, with the addition of the IPython shell and some other new additions...I just don't know that "mainstream" is a word one would use to describe it. Looking over the current applications, I don't see how we'd really fit into the mix...it's word processing, email and web, consumer-targetted multimedia apps, games, compression, etc. Combine that with a huge package size, and we've got the makings of a big fat "NO!" from the OpenCD folks. That said, if there is any interest, I'd be happy to work with someone involved in that group to make it happen. Maybe with the next release coming in the next week or so, we should just focus on getting out the word to the folks who would have a real interest in it who may not be familiar with it, and making sure they are able to get it easily.
"Joe" == Joe Cooper <joe@enthought.com> writes:
Joe> Maybe with the next release coming in the next week or so, we Joe> should just focus on getting out the word to the folks who Joe> would have a real interest in it who may not be familiar with Joe> it, and making sure they are able to get it easily. What might be nice would be for enthought to press a CD release for it, and charge a nominal fee ($10-15?) to recover some of the cost you put into the thing. I've converted a former adviser to using python plus the standard goodies in a course he is teaching in place of matlab. 95% of his students are win32. I suggested enthon to him but he was put off by the download size, so there might be a small market for a CD. Granted, any semi-literate person could simply download and burn it themselves, but we shouldn't overestimate literacy in the wild. For people like my adviser, he would probably rather order 15 copies for his next course rather than figure out how to download it and burn it. But I suspect he is an exception case: I sometimes refer to him as the only Luddite I know with a cluster of Sun workstations. JDH
John Hunter wrote:
"Joe" == Joe Cooper <joe@enthought.com> writes:
Joe> Maybe with the next release coming in the next week or so, we Joe> should just focus on getting out the word to the folks who Joe> would have a real interest in it who may not be familiar with Joe> it, and making sure they are able to get it easily.
What might be nice would be for enthought to press a CD release for it, and charge a nominal fee ($10-15?) to recover some of the cost you put into the thing. I've converted a former adviser to using python plus the standard goodies in a course he is teaching in place of matlab. 95% of his students are win32. I suggested enthon to him but he was put off by the download size, so there might be a small market for a CD.
Granted, any semi-literate person could simply download and burn it themselves, but we shouldn't overestimate literacy in the wild. For people like my adviser, he would probably rather order 15 copies for his next course rather than figure out how to download it and burn it. But I suspect he is an exception case: I sometimes refer to him as the only Luddite I know with a cluster of Sun workstations.
Hmmm..."any semi-literate person"...Is that your way of volunteering? ;-) Eric and I have discussed this very idea and I believe there is a small but critical non-technical problem with the concept: As soon as money changes hands, no matter how cheap we sell those CDs or how largely a "No Warranty and No Support" statement is printed on the label, folks who buy it will start calling us and emailing us directly, asking questions and expecting answers. And if something doesn't work right someone will want it fixed, NOW! It sounds ridiculous to most folks (me too), but I've been involved in Open Source software on a lot of fronts and I /know/ it would happen. In fact, the most demanding users are nearly always the ones who've given the least to a project, in terms of effort or money. Not that I'm bitter or anything. ;-) Anyway, this is not the official Enthought party line, by any means, but I don't think selling unsupported Enthon CDs will happen. I do think it is likely that CD giveaways at conferences might occur, and I think it has been done before, though I wasn't there to witness it. And I don't think anyone would hunt you down or threaten you with violence if you wanted to burn CDs and distribute them in whatever way you like to whomever you like.
"Joe" == Joe Cooper <joe@enthought.com> writes:
Joe> As soon as money changes hands, no matter how cheap we sell Joe> those CDs or how largely a "No Warranty and No Support" Joe> statement is printed on the label, folks who buy it will Joe> start calling us and emailing us directly, asking questions Joe> and expecting answers. And if something doesn't work right Joe> someone will want it fixed, NOW! It sounds ridiculous to Joe> most folks (me too), but I've been involved in Open Source Joe> software on a lot of fronts and I /know/ it would happen. In Joe> fact, the most demanding users are nearly always the ones Joe> who've given the least to a project, in terms of effort or Joe> money. Not that I'm bitter or anything. ;-) It doesn't sound ridiculous to me. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you sometimes get a similar reaction from folks you provide the goods to for free. End users struggle with things that are obvious to developers, and in the process can shed light on what is wrong with the software or documentation. If it's worth releasing, it's probably worth supporting. My experience with enthought python is that it works amazingly well, presumably because you've configured and tested the hell out of it. So the support commitment would be manageable, I'm guessing. Sure there will always be some crank who'll make your life miserable, but it might be worth it. "the most demanding users are nearly always the ones who've given the least to a project" (amen, but not naming any names) JDH
Joe Cooper wrote:
As soon as money changes hands, no matter how cheap we sell those CDs or how largely a "No Warranty and No Support" statement is printed on the label, folks who buy it will start calling us and emailing us directly, asking questions and expecting answers. And if something doesn't work right someone will want it fixed, NOW! It sounds ridiculous to most folks (me too), but I've been involved in Open Source software on a lot of fronts and I /know/ it would happen. In fact, the most demanding users are nearly always the ones who've given the least to a project, in terms of effort or money. Not that I'm bitter or anything. ;-)
Have an automated email sent to them telling them about the various support options such as mailing lists, IRC, bug reporting, and possibly some non-free support option (set up a 1-900 number or something? :-) ). I for one think that the more users using scipy, the better it will get. If that means selling some CDs, having some disastified "customers" along the way, so be it. Overall, getting more people to use python for scientific applications will help the community and help improve scipy in the long run. Dave
Alan G Isaac wrote:
I could not help noticing that OpenCD has no scientific tools. It seems the Enthought enhance Python distribution meets the inclusion criteria: http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/criteria.php
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, Joe Cooper apparently wrote:
Looking over the current applications, I don't see how we'd really fit into the mix...it's word processing, email and web, consumer-targetted multimedia apps, games, compression, etc.
Blender? Hardly seems broadly targetted to me. http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/programs/blender.php Or even SciTE? A programmers editor, I'd say. http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/programs/scite.php I'd guess universities are going to see the largest distribution of TheOpenCD, and so deviation from the inclusion criterion is not so obvious. fwiw, Alan Isaac
"Alan" == Alan G Isaac <aisaac@american.edu> writes:
Alan> Blender? Hardly seems broadly targetted to me. Alan> http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/programs/blender.php Over thanksgiving I was visiting a friend who's 13 year old kid was playing Halo. He was using photoshop to make customized skins for his vehicles and 3D tools to make new weapons etc. I can't remember what he was using, but I did ask him if he'd heard of blender and he said he'd downloaded it and used it. So it might be a wider audience than you think. JDH
participants (4)
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Alan G Isaac -
David Grant -
Joe Cooper -
John Hunter