Re: [SciPy-user] Pros and Cons of Python verses other array environments
For those of you objecting to the "difficulty" in importing several different packages to get all the different capabilities here going at once, there is an easy fix here suggested by Travis's use of Pylab as the title for the grouping. If you look at matplotlib's pylab.py file that it places in your site-packages directory, its just redirects the import statement to find what's needed. Add a few lines to this file and it can pull in numpy, scipy, and IPython at the same time. What might make things easier for the beginner would be to have all of the packages Travis mentioned available in a bundled download that is easily installable (like Enthought Python, but without the extra bells & whistles) and with a modified version of the pylab.py file that contains all the necessary import statements. It might also be nice if this kind of package would automatically configure the interpreter to issue the necessary import statements automatically when it starts. In this way, the beginner need not learn about import statements right away. All the basics are right there for them. -- R. Padraic Springuel Teaching Assistant Department of Physics and Astronomy University of Maine Bennett 309 Office Hours: Wednesday 2-3pm
On 9/28/06, R. Padraic Springuel <R.Springuel@umit.maine.edu> wrote:
For those of you objecting to the "difficulty" in importing several different packages to get all the different capabilities here going at once, there is an easy fix here suggested by Travis's use of Pylab as the title for the grouping. If you look at matplotlib's pylab.py file that it places in your site-packages directory, its just redirects the import statement to find what's needed. Add a few lines to this file and it can pull in numpy, scipy, and IPython at the same time. What might make things easier for the beginner would be to have all of the packages Travis mentioned available in a bundled download that is easily installable (like Enthought Python, but without the extra bells & whistles) and with a modified version of the pylab.py file that contains all the necessary import statements.
It might also be nice if this kind of package would automatically configure the interpreter to issue the necessary import statements automatically when it starts. In this way, the beginner need not learn about import statements right away. All the basics are right there for them.
That's pretty much what ipython -pylab does already, modulo importing scipy, which it does NOT assume is installed. But doing ipython -pylab -p scipy does that. The next version of ipython will add the latter as a shortcut in the Windows start menu upon installation, at Ryan Krauss' suggestion. *nix users are perfectly capable of making an alias if they so desire. Cheers, f
Fernando Perez <fperez.net <at> gmail.com> writes:
On 9/28/06, R. Padraic Springuel <R.Springuel <at> umit.maine.edu> wrote:
For those of you objecting to the "difficulty" in importing several different packages to get all the different capabilities here going at once, there is an easy fix here suggested by Travis's use of Pylab as the title for the grouping. If you look at matplotlib's pylab.py file that it places in your site-packages directory, its just redirects the import statement to find what's needed. Add a few lines to this file and it can pull in numpy, scipy, and IPython at the same time. What might make things easier for the beginner would be to have all of the packages Travis mentioned available in a bundled download that is easily installable (like Enthought Python, but without the extra bells & whistles) and with a modified version of the pylab.py file that contains all the necessary import statements.
It might also be nice if this kind of package would automatically configure the interpreter to issue the necessary import statements automatically when it starts. In this way, the beginner need not learn about import statements right away. All the basics are right there for them.
That's pretty much what
ipython -pylab
does already, modulo importing scipy, which it does NOT assume is installed. But doing
ipython -pylab -p scipy
does that. The next version of ipython will add the latter as a shortcut in the Windows start menu upon installation, at Ryan Krauss' suggestion. *nix users are perfectly capable of making an alias if they so desire.
Cheers,
f
When it comes to the distribution, I like Enthought's Python package, but it is only for Windows. What I have done for Linux is set up a gar make system (also used by konstruct and gargnome) to build everything anyone needs to get a python system up and running. The download is quite small (1 makefile per package to be built). The makefile tells the system the name and location of the download. When make is run it automatically goes to the web, gets the source, builds and installs it. All the user has to do is type 'make install' and they have a full scientific python environment waiting for them. Right now I have it set up to build blas, lapack, numpy, scipy, pygtk, matplotlib, ipython and python2.4 (if it is not already there). I also add a little script in their path that can be run to set the correct environment variables, launch ipython and import scipy and mpl. Perhaps this is a way to easily get Linux users up and running. s.
(...)
When it comes to the distribution, I like Enthought's Python package, but it is only for Windows. What I have done for Linux is set up a gar make system (also used by konstruct and gargnome) to build everything anyone needs to get a python system up and running. The download is quite small (1 makefile per package to be built). The makefile tells the system the name and location of the download. When make is run it automatically goes to the web, gets the source, builds and installs it. All the user has to do is type 'make install' and they have a full scientific python environment waiting for them. Right now I have it set up to build blas, lapack, numpy, scipy, pygtk, matplotlib, ipython and python2.4 (if it is not already there). I also add a little script in their path that can be run to set the correct environment variables, launch ipython and import scipy and mpl.
Perhaps this is a way to easily get Linux users up and running.
s.
Sounds interesting. I remember having mostly good experience with Konstrut. Is there some publicy available location where i could find your script ? -- Benjamin Thyreau
Hi, * Benjamin THYREAU <thyreau@shfj.cea.fr> wrote:
(...)
When it comes to the distribution, I like Enthought's Python package, but it is only for Windows. What I have done for Linux is set up a gar make system (also used by konstruct and gargnome) to build everything anyone needs to get a python system up and running. The download is quite small (1 makefile per package to be built). The makefile tells the system the name and location of the download. When make is run it automatically goes to the web, gets the source, builds and installs it. All the user has to do is type 'make install' and they have a full scientific python environment waiting for them. Right now I have it set up to build blas, lapack, numpy, scipy, pygtk, matplotlib, ipython and python2.4 (if it is not already there). I also add a little script in their path that can be run to set the correct environment variables, launch ipython and import scipy and mpl.
Perhaps this is a way to easily get Linux users up and running.
s.
Sounds interesting. I remember having mostly good experience with Konstrut. Is there some publicy available location where i could find your script ?
I would like to see your script too! Sounds really nice :-) Greetings! Fabian
Scott Zelakiewicz wrote:
When it comes to the distribution, I like Enthought's Python package, but it is only for Windows. What I have done for Linux is set up a gar make system (also used by konstruct and gargnome) to build everything anyone needs to get a python system up and running.
This is a really good idea, so good that I am surprised nobody thought about it before :) I didn't know that gar was usable outside gnome. I have used this systeme to test some gnome beta, and it was a good experience overall (specially compared to the nightmare of building gnome by yourself). David
Scott Zelakiewicz wrote:
When it comes to the distribution, I like Enthought's Python package, but it is only for Windows. What I have done for Linux is set up a gar make system (also used by konstruct and gargnome) to build everything anyone needs to get a python system up and running. The download is quite small (1 makefile per package to be built). The makefile tells the system the name and location of the download. When make is run it automatically goes to the web, gets the source, builds and installs it. All the user has to do is type 'make install' and they have a full scientific python environment waiting for them. Right now I have it set up to build blas, lapack, numpy, scipy, pygtk, matplotlib, ipython and python2.4 (if it is not already there). I also add a little script in their path that can be run to set the correct environment variables, launch ipython and import scipy and mpl.
I am working on getting Python Enthought Edition ported to Linux for our next release. I know which distro's our customers use, but which distro's (and processor) is everyone else using? And before you answer, as much as I like Gentoo, I don't think its something we can support at this time. Please just send me personal email, no need to flood the list... Bryce
On 9/29/06, Bryce Hendrix <bhendrix@enthought.com> wrote:
When it comes to the distribution, I like Enthought's Python package, but it is only for Windows. What I have done for Linux is set up a gar make system (also used by konstruct and gargnome) to build everything anyone needs to get a python system up and running. The download is quite small (1 makefile per
be built). The makefile tells the system the name and location of the download. When make is run it automatically goes to the web, gets the source, builds and installs it. All the user has to do is type 'make install' and they have a full scientific python environment waiting for them. Right now I have it set up to build blas, lapack, numpy, scipy, pygtk, matplotlib, ipython and
Scott Zelakiewicz wrote: package to python2.4 (if
it is not already there). I also add a little script in their path that can be run to set the correct environment variables, launch ipython and import scipy and mpl.
I am working on getting Python Enthought Edition ported to Linux for our next release. I know which distro's our customers use, but which distro's (and processor) is everyone else using? And before you answer, as much as I like Gentoo, I don't think its something we can support at this time. Please just send me personal email, no need to flood the list...
Bryce, you shouldn't support any specific distro or processor. If it is a source package that can be built with make or distutils or scons, then any distro can easily incorporate it. -- David Grant http://www.davidgrant.ca
David Grant wrote:
On 9/29/06, *Bryce Hendrix* <bhendrix@enthought.com <mailto:bhendrix@enthought.com>> wrote:
I am working on getting Python Enthought Edition ported to Linux for our next release. I know which distro's our customers use, but which distro's (and processor) is everyone else using? And before you answer, as much as I like Gentoo, I don't think its something we can support at this time. Please just send me personal email, no need to flood the list...
Bryce, you shouldn't support any specific distro or processor. If it is a source package that can be built with make or distutils or scons, then any distro can easily incorporate it.
Well those already exist. That's not what people are asking for here. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 03:39:39PM -0500, Robert Kern wrote:
Bryce, you shouldn't support any specific distro or processor. If it is a source package that can be built with make or distutils or scons, then any distro can easily incorporate it.
Well those already exist. That's not what people are asking for here.
I think there needs to be some small, well separated source packages, for instance one for Trait, one for Envisage, on for Mayavi, and a demand from users to distro maintainers to have these packages added to the distros. One there starts to be a user base of, say, traits, then distros will package it. And the user base is lagging behind because the whole ETS it just to big to be shipped as a dependancie. But I know you guys are working on that. Gaël
Yes, we're working on splitting ETS up and getting the dependencies right. We've stripped it down to 14 MB though, scipy is 12.7 MB, so its getting in the same ballpark. I've currently got the entire Python Enthought Edition down to about 90 MB spread across about 50 eggs. The next version will be (optionally) much leaner. Bryce Gael Varoquaux wrote:
I think there needs to be some small, well separated source packages, for instance one for Trait, one for Envisage, on for Mayavi, and a demand from users to distro maintainers to have these packages added to the distros. One there starts to be a user base of, say, traits, then distros will package it. And the user base is lagging behind because the whole ETS it just to big to be shipped as a dependancie. But I know you guys are working on that.
Gaël
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Gael Varoquaux wrote:
On Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 03:39:39PM -0500, Robert Kern wrote:
Bryce, you shouldn't support any specific distro or processor. If it is a source package that can be built with make or distutils or scons, then any distro can easily incorporate it.
Well those already exist. That's not what people are asking for here.
I think there needs to be some small, well separated source packages, for instance one for Trait, one for Envisage, on for Mayavi, and a demand from users to distro maintainers to have these packages added to the distros.
But we're not talking about the enthought package (http://code.enthought.com/ets/) in this thread, but rather Enthon (http://code.enthought.com/enthon/). In this thread, people definitely *are* asking for Linux binaries for the packages that are included in Enthon. All of these packages (perhaps aside from the enthought package) have very nice source distributions that will build from source on any Linux distribution you care to name. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco
Hi Bryce, just for your survey: Usually I use Windows, but when I'm using Linux I use Ubuntu on a 32-bit system. A guy I share an office with uses 64-bit Ubuntu. regards, Gary Bryce Hendrix wrote:
I am working on getting Python Enthought Edition ported to Linux for our next release. I know which distro's our customers use, but which distro's (and processor) is everyone else using? And before you answer, as much as I like Gentoo, I don't think its something we can support at this time. Please just send me personal email, no need to flood the list...
Doh!! Yes, there had to be one careless idiot who sent his reply to the list and it had to be me didn't it. Sorry. Gary R. Gary Ruben wrote:
Hi Bryce,
just for your survey: Usually I use Windows, but when I'm using Linux I use Ubuntu on a 32-bit system. A guy I share an office with uses 64-bit Ubuntu.
regards, Gary
participants (11)
-
Benjamin THYREAU -
Bryce Hendrix -
David Cournapeau -
David Grant -
Fabian Braennstroem -
Fernando Perez -
Gael Varoquaux -
Gary Ruben -
R. Padraic Springuel -
Robert Kern -
Scott Zelakiewicz