Mailman 3 June 2008 - spambayes-dev

Re: [spambayes-dev] =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT IS VERY IMPORTANT
by OConchubhair, Andoni July 1, 2008

July 1, 2008

Hi, Mail Chain moved from Spambayes User list. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/spambayes/2008-June/021978.html Though I would usually agree with this, now that I have spent a few months on this list I find that the number of people to whom this causes serious distress is significant. The warning IS there when you sign up but I imagine that I didn't read it and I can therefore see how many others might not have either. Good software practice involves checking with users when a decision they have made is going to have a serious impact: "Do you want to save the changes before exiting: Yes/No/Cancel" being the obvious example. To that end, I suggest that someone who knows how might add a confirmation checkbox and popup window to the sentence: "Please note that this is a public mailing list: all messages sent to this list are visible to the public, and are publicly archived." The point would be that you can click on a link to pop up a box which explains the public nature of this list. There would also be a check-box which you have to check to acknowledge that you understand, before it will allow you to click the "Subscribe" button at the bottom of the page. A bit like the "Terms & Conditions" check-boxes in many corporate download sites. Thanks, Andoni OConchubhair -----Original Message----- From: spambayes-bounces(a)python.org [mailto:spambayes-bounces@python.org] On Behalf Of Amedee Van Gasse Sent: 30 June 2008 10:54 To: Carrie Deutsch Cc: spambayes(a)python.org Subject: Re: [Spambayes] PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT IS VERY IMPORTANT On Mon, June 30, 2008 03:53, Carrie Deutsch wrote: > Sorry about failing netiquette. > > I had no idea it was a public email I was sending. There was no indication > of that when I first sent the email, I thought I was emailing the people > concerned, and I was pretty annoyed, as I had obviously given them my > contact details not knowing they would be attached to some form that would > go public. > > I guess there is nothing I can do now, and my contact details I see got > attached to the email that I had no idea was public as it was in my > signature. > > I don't think it is good that an email address on a website should lead to > a > public list if you don't know that it will > > Thanks for your response > > Carrie I'm sorry to tell you that it is clearly stated on the website: http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/contact.html There are currently five mailing lists of interest. All lists are public, and all are publicly archived. This is normal practice for open-source projects, and you should be aware that all email sent to one of these addresses will be visible to the world _______________________________________________ SpamBayes(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes Info/Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes Check the FAQ before asking: http://spambayes.sf.net/faq.html

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Re: [spambayes-dev] [Spambayes] FW: =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT I S VERYIMPORTANT
by OConchubhair, Andoni June 30, 2008

June 30, 2008

Is it impossible to implement a link on this page? It need not pop-up? Is it impossible to implement a check-box that must be ticket in order to click the "Subscribe" button? If these are impossible then that ends the discussion as far as I am concerned. Mark: I think that text will be helpful. Anything that will help a few more users to notice this situation will be good. That said, I think we all know that users often don't ready any of what is written, which is why they are often forced to click tick-boxes etc. to show they have read T&Cs. -----Original Message----- From: Amedee Van Gasse [mailto:amedee@amedee.be] Sent: 30 June 2008 14:14 To: OConchubhair, Andoni Cc: 'Amedee Van Gasse'; spambayes(a)python.org; spambayes-dev(a)python.org Subject: RE: [Spambayes] FW: =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT I S VERYIMPORTANT On Mon, June 30, 2008 14:52, OConchubhair, Andoni wrote: > The application that needs to be changed is not SpamBayes but rather the > page where I fill in my email address in order to join the mailing list. Aha! Finally. A web page. A web page has a coordinate called an URL that uniquely identifies it, so that we are all talking about the same thing. Are you talking about http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes ? > On > that page it has one simple sentence to let the user know that what they > are > going to do will disseminate information to the entire internet > irretrievably. It is IMHO just not enough. > > "Please note that this is a public mailing list: all messages sent to this > list are visible to the public, and are publicly archived." What is your suggestion, that does not break internet and web standards, and that can be implemented inside the existing Mailman mailing list software version 2.1.10 that is provided to spambayes by python.org? I'm afraid that the good spambayes-devs are actually quite limited in what they can do. What you seem to suggest (a popup?) is afaict technically impossible inside the current mailman framework. (Spambayes-devs, please correct me if I'm wrong) -- Amedee

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Re: [spambayes-dev] [Spambayes] FW: =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO T HIS EMAIL _ IT I S VERYIMPORTANT
by OConchubhair, Andoni June 30, 2008

June 30, 2008

Yes. I did not post anything that I want removed. I understand what a public mailing list is and how it works. I am not writing about me but about the many people who post to this list each month distressed because their information is available to all and sundry on the web. You phrase it in such a way as to make the user sound like a complete idiot and yet the fact that so many people seem to be experiencing this difficulty on a regular basis shows that it does not take any exceptional characteristics to make this simple mistake. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hammond [mailto:mhammond@skippinet.com.au] Sent: 30 June 2008 14:09 To: OConchubhair, Andoni; 'Amedee Van Gasse' Cc: spambayes(a)python.org; spambayes-dev(a)python.org Subject: RE: [spambayes-dev] [Spambayes] FW: =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT I S VERYIMPORTANT > The application that needs to be changed is not SpamBayes but > rather the page where I fill in my email address in order to > join the mailing list. On that page it has one simple sentence > to let the user know that what they are going to do will > disseminate information to the entire internet irretrievably. > It is IMHO just not enough. So let me get this straight: You posted to the spambayes mailing list, but it failed to be delivered as you weren't a member of the mailing list. It directed you to a mailing list subscription page, where the second line tells you this is a mailing list that is public to the world. However, after all of that, you still didn't know it was a mailing list? You want a checkbox on the mailing list subscription page that says, basically, "I don't know what a mailing list is, and I haven't read a single word of this page - subscribe me anyway?" Is there something I'm missing? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Amedee Van Gasse [mailto:amedee@amedee.be] Sent: 30 June 2008 13:41 To: OConchubhair, Andoni Cc: spambayes(a)python.org; spambayes-dev(a)python.org Subject: Re: [Spambayes] FW: =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT I S VERYIMPORTANT On Mon, June 30, 2008 14:28, OConchubhair, Andoni wrote: > I agree completely. The distress is self-inflicted. Just like when I close > Microsoft Word accidentally after spending a whole day typing my report > and > thereby loose an entire day's work, but I don't because it reminds my > tired > head to click 'Save'. > > Fortunately for me, software can easily be written to help with human > situations. It is one of the over-riding principals of good software > development that software should be written to suit the human condition > rather than the humans having to change the way they are to accommodate > the > software (or any machine for that matter) hence we have safety guards on > chain-saws and air-bags in cars. I'm confused about which software should be changed. Spambayes? I use the procmail filter at home and the outlook plugin at work, and neither provide a method for subscribing to the spambayes mailing list. However you do have one valid point of criticism. The Outlook package provides a link to a local html page: file:///C:/Program%20Files/SpamBayes/docs/outlook/docs/troubleshooting.html# mail There I read the following text: -----CUT----- Send a mail If all else fails, you may want to send someone a mail. Please make sure you have read this document thoroughly before doing do. Your mail should be sent to the SpamBayes mailing list (spambayes(a)python.org). Please do not mail any of the contributors directly! (see "good karma" below). Please ensure this mail contains: the version of Windows you are using, the version of SpamBayes, any log files. If you also mention that you read this trouble-shooting guide and are still stuck, then you will be more likely to get answered! (And if you can subscribe to this mailing list and help answer other questions, and good karma will come your way!) -----CUT----- There is no mention about the fact that the mailing list is public on the local documentation page. So I would rather agree if someone would call this a "bug" in the documentation. This should be changed as soon as possible. I'm going to subscribe to the dev-list to request this. However on the website, near every occurrence I could find of the mailing list address, it is mentioned that it is a public mailing list. So there I would respectfully disagree with you if you say that the website should be changed. (correct me if I'm wrong) -- Amedee

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Re: [spambayes-dev] [Spambayes] FW: =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT I S VERYIMPORTANT
by OConchubhair, Andoni June 30, 2008

June 30, 2008

The application that needs to be changed is not SpamBayes but rather the page where I fill in my email address in order to join the mailing list. On that page it has one simple sentence to let the user know that what they are going to do will disseminate information to the entire internet irretrievably. It is IMHO just not enough. "Please note that this is a public mailing list: all messages sent to this list are visible to the public, and are publicly archived." -----Original Message----- From: Amedee Van Gasse [mailto:amedee@amedee.be] Sent: 30 June 2008 13:41 To: OConchubhair, Andoni Cc: spambayes(a)python.org; spambayes-dev(a)python.org Subject: Re: [Spambayes] FW: =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT I S VERYIMPORTANT On Mon, June 30, 2008 14:28, OConchubhair, Andoni wrote: > I agree completely. The distress is self-inflicted. Just like when I close > Microsoft Word accidentally after spending a whole day typing my report > and > thereby loose an entire day's work, but I don't because it reminds my > tired > head to click 'Save'. > > Fortunately for me, software can easily be written to help with human > situations. It is one of the over-riding principals of good software > development that software should be written to suit the human condition > rather than the humans having to change the way they are to accommodate > the > software (or any machine for that matter) hence we have safety guards on > chain-saws and air-bags in cars. I'm confused about which software should be changed. Spambayes? I use the procmail filter at home and the outlook plugin at work, and neither provide a method for subscribing to the spambayes mailing list. However you do have one valid point of criticism. The Outlook package provides a link to a local html page: file:///C:/Program%20Files/SpamBayes/docs/outlook/docs/troubleshooting.html# mail There I read the following text: -----CUT----- Send a mail If all else fails, you may want to send someone a mail. Please make sure you have read this document thoroughly before doing do. Your mail should be sent to the SpamBayes mailing list (spambayes(a)python.org). Please do not mail any of the contributors directly! (see "good karma" below). Please ensure this mail contains: the version of Windows you are using, the version of SpamBayes, any log files. If you also mention that you read this trouble-shooting guide and are still stuck, then you will be more likely to get answered! (And if you can subscribe to this mailing list and help answer other questions, and good karma will come your way!) -----CUT----- There is no mention about the fact that the mailing list is public on the local documentation page. So I would rather agree if someone would call this a "bug" in the documentation. This should be changed as soon as possible. I'm going to subscribe to the dev-list to request this. However on the website, near every occurrence I could find of the mailing list address, it is mentioned that it is a public mailing list. So there I would respectfully disagree with you if you say that the website should be changed. (correct me if I'm wrong) -- Amedee

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Re: [spambayes-dev] [Spambayes] FW: =Spambayes= PLEASE REPLY TO THIS EMAIL _ IT I S VERYIMPORTANT
by Amedee Van Gasse June 30, 2008

June 30, 2008

On Mon, June 30, 2008 14:28, OConchubhair, Andoni wrote: > I agree completely. The distress is self-inflicted. Just like when I close > Microsoft Word accidentally after spending a whole day typing my report > and > thereby loose an entire day's work, but I don't because it reminds my > tired > head to click 'Save'. > > Fortunately for me, software can easily be written to help with human > situations. It is one of the over-riding principals of good software > development that software should be written to suit the human condition > rather than the humans having to change the way they are to accommodate > the > software (or any machine for that matter) hence we have safety guards on > chain-saws and air-bags in cars. I'm confused about which software should be changed. Spambayes? I use the procmail filter at home and the outlook plugin at work, and neither provide a method for subscribing to the spambayes mailing list. However you do have one valid point of criticism. The Outlook package provides a link to a local html page: file:///C:/Program%20Files/SpamBayes/docs/outlook/docs/troubleshooting.html#mail There I read the following text: -----CUT----- Send a mail If all else fails, you may want to send someone a mail. Please make sure you have read this document thoroughly before doing do. Your mail should be sent to the SpamBayes mailing list (spambayes(a)python.org). Please do not mail any of the contributors directly! (see "good karma" below). Please ensure this mail contains: the version of Windows you are using, the version of SpamBayes, any log files. If you also mention that you read this trouble-shooting guide and are still stuck, then you will be more likely to get answered! (And if you can subscribe to this mailing list and help answer other questions, and good karma will come your way!) -----CUT----- There is no mention about the fact that the mailing list is public on the local documentation page. So I would rather agree if someone would call this a "bug" in the documentation. This should be changed as soon as possible. I'm going to subscribe to the dev-list to request this. However on the website, near every occurrence I could find of the mailing list address, it is mentioned that it is a public mailing list. So there I would respectfully disagree with you if you say that the website should be changed. (correct me if I'm wrong) -- Amedee

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[imapfilter] saving 1804 with new id: 1209671482
by David Abrahams June 27, 2008

June 27, 2008

Does anyone know what these messages mean? It seems like they are repeated for the same numbers during my tte training cycle, so the messages aren't really getting re-saved with the new ids? Thanks, -- Dave Abrahams Boost Consulting http://boost-consulting.com

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Training w/o any spam?
by skip＠pobox.com June 22, 2008

June 22, 2008

The most common training problem we generally encounter is too much spam in the database. Martin v. Loewis and I implemented a SpamBayes trainer for bugs.python.org which seems to be exhibiting the reverse. I'm just training now through the web interface (looks just like the SpamBayes POP3 proxy training interfac). I see about 25% unsures and the rest hams. A couple messages scored as spam, but they were mistakes. I'm only training a couple unsures out of each day as ham and discarding the rest. Still, I've got a database with essentially all hams. What might I expect in the way of accuracy? Skip

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vivo torpedo msg zzjklshlçhg
by 98754321＠vivozap.com.br June 21, 2008

June 21, 2008

- This mail is in HTML. Some elements may be ommited in plain text. - Olá Olá, Você acaba de receber um FotoTorpedo veja

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