Mailman 3 January 2018 - Speed

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Antonio Cuni Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

Why do you want to drop it? It's a piece of Python code which does lots of string manipulation, so it's a very good benchmark to compare different Python versions and/or different Python implementations. If the reason is "this is no longer going to represent the overall performance of django because the newest version of django uses something different", then I suggest to simply change the name of the benchmark. On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ok. So would you be ok to simply drop this benchmark? Or does anyone need > it? > > http://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/benchmarks.html#django-template > --- > Use the Django template system to build a 150x150-cell HTML table. > > Use Context and Template classes of the django.template module. > --- > > Other template benchmarks: > > * http://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/benchmarks.html#chameleon > * http://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/benchmarks.html#genshi > * http://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/benchmarks.html#mako > > Victor > > 2018-01-09 17:46 GMT+01:00 Antoine Pitrou <solipsis(a)pitrou.net>: > > On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 17:39:33 +0100 > > Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> 2018-01-09 16:42 GMT+01:00 INADA Naoki <songofacandy(a)gmail.com>: > >> > We already compare different libraries. For example, pickle is very > different > >> > between Python 2.7 and 3.6. > >> > Even though it's not good for comparing interpreter performance, it's > good > >> > for people comparing Python 2 and 3. > >> > > >> > If Django 2.0 on Python 3.7 is much faster than Django 1.11 on Python > 2.7, > >> > it's nice carrot for people moving forward. > >> > >> I agree. Antoine: what do you think? > > > > I disagree. pickle is an integral part of Python, it's versioned > > *with* Python. Django is not and it's misleading to compare results > > obtained using two differents of it. > > > > Regards > > > > Antoine. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speed mailing list > > Speed(a)python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed > _______________________________________________ > Speed mailing list > Speed(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/speed >

1 0

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Antoine Pitrou Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 18:13:00 +0100 Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2018-01-09 17:55 GMT+01:00 Antoine Pitrou <solipsis(a)pitrou.net>: > > I don't know, what is the point of dropping it? > > I'm trying to keep pyperformance up to date: always update the next > performance release to latest versions of requirements. But up to date with what? Just because your benchmark is running with an older version of Django doesn't mean that the performance indications it gives are not valid anymore. Regards Antoine.

1 0

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Antoine Pitrou Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 18:11:28 +0100 Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2018-01-09 18:01 GMT+01:00 Antoine Pitrou <solipsis(a)pitrou.net>: > > I admit, I find the whole virtual environment thing annoying. If I > > even want to run *one* benchmark, it starts downloading and > > installing *every* potentially useful third-party library. > > If Django is installed in your PYTHONPATH, you can run directly the benchmark: > > cd performance/benchmarks > python3 bm_django_template.py Thanks, but that's not very functional. Regards Antoine.

1 0

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Antoine Pitrou Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 17:51:36 +0100 Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ok. So would you be ok to simply drop this benchmark? Or does anyone need it? I don't know, what is the point of dropping it? It makes it less easy to compare Python 2 and Python 3 performance, right? Regards Antoine.

2 1

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Antoine Pitrou Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 17:57:13 +0100 Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I would prefer to not have to install Django 1.11 *and* Django 2.0 in > the same virtual environment (I'm not sure that it's technically > possible). It means that the Django 1.11 benchmark would be specific > to Python 2, whereas the Django 2.0 benchmark would be specific to > Python 3. I see, it's limitation due to how the benchmarking script works. Then I guess it's up to you :-) I admit, I find the whole virtual environment thing annoying. If I even want to run *one* benchmark, it starts downloading and installing *every* potentially useful third-party library. Regards Antoine.

2 1

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Berker Peksağ Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ok. So would you be ok to simply drop this benchmark? Or does anyone need it? > > http://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/benchmarks.html#django-template > --- > Use the Django template system to build a 150x150-cell HTML table. > > Use Context and Template classes of the django.template module. > --- > > Other template benchmarks: > > * http://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/benchmarks.html#chameleon > * http://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/benchmarks.html#genshi > * http://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/benchmarks.html#mako Django's template system is probably the most popular one out there. Django 2.0 doesn't introduce a lot of new features or performance improvements to the template engine and 1.11 is an LTS release. I'd say keep Django 1.11 for now. --Berker

1 0

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Antoine Pitrou Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 17:42:34 +0100 Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2018-01-09 16:17 GMT+01:00 Antoine Pitrou <solipsis(a)pitrou.net>: > > How do you plan to make numbers comparable if you change the Django > > version for a given benchmark? The only solution IMHO is to add a > > different benchmark. > > I mostly use performance to compare Python versions, like compare > Python 3.7 to Python 2.7. If the Django-1.11 benchmark becomes > different, I'm not able anymore to compare django_template between > Python 2 and Python 3. Why would it become different?

2 1

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Antoine Pitrou Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 17:39:33 +0100 Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2018-01-09 16:42 GMT+01:00 INADA Naoki <songofacandy(a)gmail.com>: > > We already compare different libraries. For example, pickle is very different > > between Python 2.7 and 3.6. > > Even though it's not good for comparing interpreter performance, it's good > > for people comparing Python 2 and 3. > > > > If Django 2.0 on Python 3.7 is much faster than Django 1.11 on Python 2.7, > > it's nice carrot for people moving forward. > > I agree. Antoine: what do you think? I disagree. pickle is an integral part of Python, it's versioned *with* Python. Django is not and it's misleading to compare results obtained using two differents of it. Regards Antoine.

2 1

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Antoine Pitrou Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 16:09:16 +0100 Victor Stinner <victor.stinner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I regularly update requirements of the performance benchmark suite. > Django 2.0 is now proposed, but it's incompatible with Python 2.7 and > PyPy2. > > * Is it ok to skip the django_template benchmark on Python 2.7 and PyPy2? > * Should we add a different benchmark? How do you plan to make numbers comparable if you change the Django version for a given benchmark? The only solution IMHO is to add a different benchmark. Perhaps you should also probably wait for a bugfix release or two :-) Regards Antoine.

3 2

Re: [Speed] Update Django from 1.11 to 2.0? What about Python 2.7 and PyPy2?
by Victor Stinner Jan. 9, 2018

Jan. 9, 2018

2018-01-09 16:42 GMT+01:00 INADA Naoki <songofacandy(a)gmail.com>: > We already compare different libraries. For example, pickle is very different > between Python 2.7 and 3.6. > Even though it's not good for comparing interpreter performance, it's good > for people comparing Python 2 and 3. > > If Django 2.0 on Python 3.7 is much faster than Django 1.11 on Python 2.7, > it's nice carrot for people moving forward. I agree. Antoine: what do you think? >> Perhaps you should also probably wait for a bugfix release or two :-) > > I agree. Well, I wrote "2.0", but the latest release is "2.0.1", released a few days ago: https://pypi.org/project/Django/ Victor

1 0