Re: [Twisted-web] Mantissa dead? => Nevow? => web? for person who doesnt want to use django
On 14/12/2009, at 8:36 PM, Gas wrote:
Hi
I muck around in twisted and am trying to setup a site for a club and would like to use twisted as much as possible because I like it. So saw stuff on Axiom and liked that then found mantissa only problem is nothing on web on how to get mantissa to work that actually works .. So I've lost a few hours trying to get it going with latest svn on python 2.5 (2.6 you get normal 2.5 code in 2.6 warnings (ie md5 etc) plus axiom/_pysqlite2.py needs to point to sqlite3 otherwise same errors) but keep getting the
File "/Users/gas/src/py/twisted/axiom-tests/Wiki/xmantissa/plugins/wikioff.py", line 3, in <module> from xmantissa import website, offering, provisioning exceptions.ImportError: cannot import name provisioning
error which came up in this forum in Feb 2008 t but that is about it that I can find on web.
I presume this error is related to the mantissa install issue - which Im not sure how to debug/fix: <snip> ersion=Version('xmantissa', 0, 7, 0) # (SVN r17880)),
, , Version('xmantissa', 0, 7, 0) # (SVN r17880), , , , , , Version('axiom', 0, 6, 0), , , , ] Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Users/gas/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/epsilon/setuphelper.py", line 12, in pluginModules yield namedAny(moduleName) File "/Users/gas/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/Twisted-9.0.0-py2.6-macosx-10.6-i386.egg/twisted/python/reflect.py", line 469, in namedAny raise ObjectNotFound('%r does not name an object' % (name,)) ObjectNotFound: 'build.lib.axiom.plugins' does not name an object Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Users/gas/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/epsilon/setuphelper.py", line 12, in pluginModules yield namedAny(moduleName) File "/Users/gas/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/Twisted-9.0.0-py2.6-macosx-10.6-i386.egg/twisted/python/reflect.py", line 469, in namedAny raise ObjectNotFound('%r does not name an object' % (name,)) ObjectNotFound: 'build.lib.nevow.plugins' does not name an object Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Users/gas/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/epsilon/setuphelper.py", line 12, in pluginModules yield namedAny(moduleName) File "/Users/gas/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/Twisted-9.0.0-py2.6-macosx-10.6-i386.egg/twisted/python/reflect.py", line 469, in namedAny raise ObjectNotFound('%r does not name an object' % (name,)) ObjectNotFound: 'doc.listings.interstore.xmantissa.plugins' does not name an object Full plugin list for 'nevow.plugins': [ , , ] (ps this debug was form my mac machine but have done it on ubuntu 2.5 install with same results)
So my questions are - being a twisted and web NOB seeing Divmod died/disbanded (I think 6 months ago?) and Mantissa doesnt look like its been touched for 2 years, and Nevow??? --- I'm not sure what is strategy if you want to develop a web app with twisted?
Do I continue and try and work out the code for Mantissa (which I doubt Im capable of being a programming NOB), try to do it via Nevow or go back to JPs web in 60 second tutorial and work out a web application from there?
Any pointers most appreciated
Gas
PS mucked around and got Combinator going which i liked however if you are developing a Mantissa app then combinator didnt work as you really needed too install mantissa and all its dependencies so you could get access to the axiomatic script or did I miss something? Is that the issue with Combinator that if python source installs scripts you still need to install the source in your site-packages? So is Combinator still valid or shall I look at things like bzr and use same Twisted development method ie of branches?
+34618525900 agasson@red-elvis.net
Gas +34618525900 agasson@red-elvis.net
On 07:39 pm, agasson@red-elvis.net wrote:
On 14/12/2009, at 8:36 PM, Gas wrote:
Hi
I muck around in twisted and am trying to setup a site for a club and would like to use twisted as much as possible because I like it. So saw stuff on Axiom and liked that then found mantissa only problem is nothing on web on how to get mantissa to work that actually works .. So I've lost a few hours trying to get it going with latest svn on python 2.5 (2.6 you get normal 2.5 code in 2.6 warnings (ie md5 etc) plus axiom/_pysqlite2.py needs to point to sqlite3 otherwise same errors) but keep getting the
I've just done some work to let Axiom use the stdlib sqlite3 module. This was put off for a long time because of some data-corrupting bugs in the version of sqlite3 in Python 2.5. If someone wants to put together some patches to fix the md5 issue, I'm around to review them.
File "/Users/gas/src/py/twisted/axiom- tests/Wiki/xmantissa/plugins/wikioff.py", line 3, in <module> from xmantissa import website, offering, provisioning exceptions.ImportError: cannot import name provisioning
I'm guess you tried to follow http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/MantissaWikiTutorial. Quite some time ago, I added a warning to the top of that page indicating that the tutorial is broken. So, don't look at it. This leaves us with the question of what documentation you ''should'' look at. This highlights a major problem with Mantissa - its near lack of documentation. I don't think anything really exists to help a beginning get up to speed with things. Sorry about that.
So my questions are - being a twisted and web NOB seeing Divmod died/disbanded (I think 6 months ago?) and Mantissa doesnt look like its been touched for 2 years, and Nevow??? --- I'm not sure what is strategy if you want to develop a web app with twisted?
You will probably be able to find some assistance in #divmod on irc.freenode.net, as several people (myself included) with Mantissa experience still frequent that channel. Additionally, Mantissa development is still underway, although at a very languid pace, so it's possible documentation will appear at some point. The best way for this to happen is for more people to pitch in, though. ;) Divmod may be gone, but Mantissa and the related libraries are and always have been open source projects - anyone is welcome to help, and such help is needed for the projects to survive.
Do I continue and try and work out the code for Mantissa (which I doubt Im capable of being a programming NOB), try to do it via Nevow or go back to JPs web in 60 second tutorial and work out a web application from there?
Whether the effort of learning Mantissa will ultimately be worthwhile or not depends on what kind of application you intend to develop. It may be that Mantissa isn't even particularly applicable to your problem space, in which case looking at Twisted Web or Nevow directly would make more sense. Or it could be exactly the other way around. However, at the very least, Mantissa is quite heavily based on Nevow, so learning Nevow is going to be a benefit to you no matter way. And once you have some Nevow familiarity, the learning curve for Mantissa might not look so steep.
Any pointers most appreciated
Gas
PS mucked around and got Combinator going which i liked however if you are developing a Mantissa app then combinator didnt work as you really needed too install mantissa and all its dependencies so you could get access to the axiomatic script or did I miss something? Is that the issue with Combinator that if python source installs scripts you still need to install the source in your site-packages? So is Combinator still valid or shall I look at things like bzr and use same Twisted development method ie of branches?
Combinator lets you skip the installation step. I'm not sure if you figured that out or not. Surprisingly, I'd say that the combinator tutorial (http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/CombinatorTutorial) is worth reading, if you haven't seen it already. Otherwise, perhaps I've totally misunderstood your question. :) Jean-Paul
On 14/12/2009, at 8:58 PM, exarkun@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
On 07:39 pm, agasson@red-elvis.net wrote:
On 14/12/2009, at 8:36 PM, Gas wrote:
Hi
I muck around in twisted and am trying to setup a site for a club and would like to use twisted as much as possible because I like it. So saw stuff on Axiom and liked that then found mantissa only problem is nothing on web on how to get mantissa to work that actually works .. So I've lost a few hours trying to get it going with latest svn on python 2.5 (2.6 you get normal 2.5 code in 2.6 warnings (ie md5 etc) plus axiom/_pysqlite2.py needs to point to sqlite3 otherwise same errors) but keep getting the
I've just done some work to let Axiom use the stdlib sqlite3 module. This was put off for a long time because of some data-corrupting bugs in the version of sqlite3 in Python 2.5.
If someone wants to put together some patches to fix the md5 issue, I'm around to review them.
Ok I could do that I think (presume use same method used for twisted 9.0 which I willl have to look into to see what they did)
File "/Users/gas/src/py/twisted/axiom- tests/Wiki/xmantissa/plugins/wikioff.py", line 3, in <module> from xmantissa import website, offering, provisioning exceptions.ImportError: cannot import name provisioning
I'm guess you tried to follow http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/MantissaWikiTutorial. Quite some time ago, I added a warning to the top of that page indicating that the tutorial is broken. So, don't look at it.
yeah I know its broken however my issues is the installation of mantissa is broken so even though I am trying to decipher a broken tutorial my installation is mantissa install is broken from setup hence I cant progress. If I could get a hint on what i needed to look at to fix mantissa install (issue in setup that has been deleted form this post) then maybe I could make progress ?
This leaves us with the question of what documentation you ''should'' look at. This highlights a major problem with Mantissa - its near lack of documentation. I don't think anything really exists to help a beginning get up to speed with things.
Sorry about that.
No worries - if I can get past setup issue then I would know errors are my lack of understanding..
So my questions are - being a twisted and web NOB seeing Divmod died/disbanded (I think 6 months ago?) and Mantissa doesnt look like its been touched for 2 years, and Nevow??? --- I'm not sure what is strategy if you want to develop a web app with twisted?
You will probably be able to find some assistance in #divmod on irc.freenode.net, as several people (myself included) with Mantissa experience still frequent that channel. Additionally, Mantissa development is still underway, although at a very languid pace, so it's possible documentation will appear at some point. The best way for this to happen is for more people to pitch in, though. ;) I hear your hint however my help would probably be a hindrance but will try. Need to get off company network to access IRC which is pain..
Divmod may be gone, but Mantissa and the related libraries are and always have been open source projects - anyone is welcome to help, and such help is needed for the projects to survive.
Ok will I will help if you throw me a morcel on where I should look to fix mantissa setup issue ;)
Do I continue and try and work out the code for Mantissa (which I doubt Im capable of being a programming NOB), try to do it via Nevow or go back to JPs web in 60 second tutorial and work out a web application from there?
Whether the effort of learning Mantissa will ultimately be worthwhile or not depends on what kind of application you intend to develop. It may be that Mantissa isn't even particularly applicable to your problem space, in which case looking at Twisted Web or Nevow directly would make more sense. All it is are some pet projects where I store some data in a database about exercise I have done/planned or club members and that I have authenticated access to some pages that have confidential information (for club) I could probably do it it django but would like to keep on twisted learning curve ie testing before writing Or it could be exactly the other way around. However, at the very least, Mantissa is quite heavily based on Nevow, so learning Nevow is going to be a benefit to you no matter way. And once you have some Nevow familiarity, the learning curve for Mantissa might not look so steep.
Ok so nevow still adds on web ie it has stan and athena, do these sit on top of web or does nevow have its own web implementation?
Any pointers most appreciated
Gas
PS mucked around and got Combinator going which i liked however if you are developing a Mantissa app then combinator didnt work as you really needed too install mantissa and all its dependencies so you could get access to the axiomatic script or did I miss something? Is that the issue with Combinator that if python source installs scripts you still need to install the source in your site-packages? So is Combinator still valid or shall I look at things like bzr and use same Twisted development method ie of branches?
Combinator lets you skip the installation step. I'm not sure if you figured that out or not. Yeha I did however issue is it doesnt for mantissa (I think) as you need to install to get the axiomatic script (well i think you do cause I couldn't find it in mantissa source?) so I could play arounf with broken tutorials or is aximoatic hidden somewhere diffferent than in Mantissa ?
Surprisingly, I'd say that the combinator tutorial (http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/CombinatorTutorial) is worth reading, if you haven't seen it already. Otherwise, perhaps I've totally misunderstood your question. :) No I got that to work but just had issue above with mantissa
thanks for the prompt reply Gas
Jean-Paul
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Gas +34618525900 agasson@red-elvis.net
On 08:19 pm, agasson@red-elvis.net wrote:
On 14/12/2009, at 8:58 PM, exarkun@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
On 07:39 pm, agasson@red-elvis.net wrote:
On 14/12/2009, at 8:36 PM, Gas wrote:
Hi
I muck around in twisted and am trying to setup a site for a club and would like to use twisted as much as possible because I like it. So saw stuff on Axiom and liked that then found mantissa only problem is nothing on web on how to get mantissa to work that actually works .. So I've lost a few hours trying to get it going with latest svn on python 2.5 (2.6 you get normal 2.5 code in 2.6 warnings (ie md5 etc) plus axiom/_pysqlite2.py needs to point to sqlite3 otherwise same errors) but keep getting the
I've just done some work to let Axiom use the stdlib sqlite3 module. This was put off for a long time because of some data-corrupting bugs in the version of sqlite3 in Python 2.5.
If someone wants to put together some patches to fix the md5 issue, I'm around to review them.
Ok I could do that I think (presume use same method used for twisted 9.0 which I willl have to look into to see what they did)
File "/Users/gas/src/py/twisted/axiom- tests/Wiki/xmantissa/plugins/wikioff.py", line 3, in <module> from xmantissa import website, offering, provisioning exceptions.ImportError: cannot import name provisioning
I'm guess you tried to follow http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/MantissaWikiTutorial. Quite some time ago, I added a warning to the top of that page indicating that the tutorial is broken. So, don't look at it.
yeah I know its broken however my issues is the installation of mantissa is broken so even though I am trying to decipher a broken tutorial my installation is mantissa install is broken from setup hence I cant progress. If I could get a hint on what i needed to look at to fix mantissa install (issue in setup that has been deleted form this post) then maybe I could make progress ?
Here's that error again:
raise ObjectNotFound('%r does not name an object' % (name,)) ObjectNotFound: 'doc.listings.interstore.xmantissa.plugins' does not name an object Full plugin list for 'nevow.plugins': [
, , ]
It looks like a problem with Mantissa's setup.py. I assume that's what you ran to produce this, right? I'm not exactly sure what's going on here, but I can sort of reproduce the problem, although I get a less informative exception: File "/home/exarkun/Projects/Twisted/trunk/twisted/python/reflect.py", line 473, in namedAny obj = getattr(obj, n) AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'listings' For some reason I also don't understand. This is indeed unfortunate and someone should investigate. :) However, with Combinator you really don't need to install it. The first time you source environment.py after using "chbranch Divmod trunk ..." (which will probably only be after you open another shell), you should get axiomatic in your path (also, axiomatic is actually part of Axiom, but you get that with your Divmod checkout too, of course).
This leaves us with the question of what documentation you ''should'' look at. This highlights a major problem with Mantissa - its near lack of documentation. I don't think anything really exists to help a beginning get up to speed with things.
Sorry about that.
So my questions are - being a twisted and web NOB seeing Divmod died/disbanded (I think 6 months ago?) and Mantissa doesnt look like its been touched for 2 years, and Nevow??? --- I'm not sure what is strategy if you want to develop a web app with twisted?
You will probably be able to find some assistance in #divmod on irc.freenode.net, as several people (myself included) with Mantissa experience still frequent that channel. Additionally, Mantissa development is still underway, although at a very languid pace, so it's possible documentation will appear at some point. The best way for this to happen is for more people to pitch in, though. ;) I hear your hint however my help would probably be a hindrance but will
No worries - if I can get past setup issue then I would know errors are my lack of understanding.. try. Need to get off company network to access IRC which is pain..
Divmod may be gone, but Mantissa and the related libraries are and always have been open source projects - anyone is welcome to help, and such help is needed for the projects to survive.
Ok will I will help if you throw me a morcel on where I should look to fix mantissa setup issue ;)
Do I continue and try and work out the code for Mantissa (which I doubt Im capable of being a programming NOB), try to do it via Nevow or go back to JPs web in 60 second tutorial and work out a web application from there?
Whether the effort of learning Mantissa will ultimately be worthwhile or not depends on what kind of application you intend to develop. It may be that Mantissa isn't even particularly applicable to your problem space, in which case looking at Twisted Web or Nevow directly would make more sense. All it is are some pet projects where I store some data in a database about exercise I have done/planned or club members and that I have authenticated access to some pages that have confidential information (for club) I could probably do it it django but would like to keep on twisted learning curve ie testing before writing Or it could be exactly the other way around. However, at the very least, Mantissa is quite heavily based on Nevow, so learning Nevow is going to be a benefit to you no matter way. And once you have some Nevow familiarity, the learning curve for Mantissa might not look so steep.
Ok so nevow still adds on web ie it has stan and athena, do these sit on top of web or does nevow have its own web implementation?
Nevow builds on Twisted Web, yes. Stan and Athena are both provided by Nevow, and Nevow mostly relies on the HTTP implementation from Twisted Web. Jean-Paul
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exarkun＠twistedmatrix.com -
Gas