Hi My first time on this list, but most people already know my antics from #twisted.web I was advised to join and make noise and hype about my project Enamel http://open.thusa.co.za/enamel/ although I hope it may not be premature to do so. I know it's "yet another framework" to some people, but I hope there will be enough interest at some stage to achieve it's goals - which ultimately is to get more people using Nevow. Comments/flames/whatever are welcome. -- Colin Alston ~ http://www.karnaugh.za.net/ Expecting one person to deal with all your problems is like praying each time you require an ambulance: You'll eventually be dead long before you get a response.
On 3 Jun, 07:30 pm, karnaugh@karnaugh.za.net wrote:
Hi My first time on this list, but most people already know my antics from #twisted.web
Hello, Colin!
Comments/flames/whatever are welcome.
I notice that one of the goals that you provide is to "provide a smoother and more productive entry point" to Twisted development. While I'm sure that Enamel provides useful abstractions that will be more familiar to people who are familiar with traditional 3-tier web application architectures, there is still a lot of room for a smoother and more productive entrypoint to Twisted/Nevow/Athena development to be provided simply by having better introductory documentation. I would strongly encourage you (and anyone else interested in this) to consider reporting (and fixing!) bugs in the Divmod tracker related to the ease of use of installing Nevow or Combinator, and in the Twisted tracker related to the ease of installing Twisted. There's also an unfortunate amount of boilerplate associated with setting up a new Nevow application. We recently added an "athena- widget" twistd plugin to Nevow to try to mitigate that, but the documentation on getting started with Athena ( http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/DivmodNevow/Athena ) is poorly linked, and by turns obscure, obsolete, or incomplete. There should really be a one-page, one-source-file tutorial for any particular Twisted or Divmod framework, which allows you to gloss over the details to get something demoable quickly. In other words, we need help! If you're wondering if there's something you can help to document, chances are there is. Don't worry if you don't feel qualified to do the best job; anything is better than nothing, which is mostly what we have.
On 04/06/2007 07:10 glyph@divmod.com wrote:
In other words, we need help! If you're wondering if there's something you can help to document, chances are there is. Don't worry if you don't feel qualified to do the best job; anything is better than nothing, which is mostly what we have.
You're right, and it's never been the plan to just leave my gripes (which are very few) with Nevow behind and fork an abstraction layer to hide them away. The main issue is that I actually like the complexity behind Nevow, because it's not deceiving or limiting, ie - Once you can do Hello World, the rest is as difficult. The main thing that a lot of people do ask for is boiler plate code - but mostly only when they are beginning. After this your 'boiler plate' starts to become much more application tuned. Of course, I would work on Mantissa but there needs to be less cohesion between it and Axiom and thats a scary job. You'll note pretty much each of the documentation pages on Enamel links at the bottom "If you want to do more go to X and learn it properly" sort of thing. The other thing is that no-context needs to be completed before there is much point in commencing a wide scale rewrite of Nevows documentation. Someone also needs to rewrite Formal to play with no-context. I am but one man :P -- Colin Alston ~ http://www.karnaugh.za.net/ Expecting one person to deal with all your problems is like praying each time you require an ambulance: You'll eventually be dead long before you get a response.
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Colin Alston -
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