Mailman 3 Introduction, newbie confusion plus an offer - Twisted-web

Introduction, newbie confusion plus an offer

lloyd＠paisite.com

6 Jul 2005 6 Jul '05

9:33 p.m.

Hello, I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time. I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me. I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework. But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion. So, I'd like to make a proposal: I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system. I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community. The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it. Any takers? Best wishes, Lloyd

Show replies by date

Ed Suominen

6 Jul 6 Jul

9:50 p.m.

Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.) Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions. Best regards, Ed Suominen On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...

Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

Kieran Holland

7 Jul 7 Jul

2:05 a.m.

Partly in an effort to clear up my own confusion, I have just been putting together some documentation on Stan, Nevow's document object model. This is my first draft and I am fairly new to Nevow so don't take it as gospel: http://dictator.kieranholland.com/prose/Meet%20Stan.html I would greatly value feedback from more experienced Nevow users. Kieran On 07/07/05, Ed Suominen wrote:

...

Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.)

Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions.

Best regards, Ed Suominen

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...
Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

Simon Hedberg

11:51 a.m.

Great work Kieran! It's inspiring to see docs like that. If we could manage to produce similar documents on the other parts of Nevow I think we'd be in good shape. Like you've noted in the appendix a context tutorial and a overview of the interfaces would probably be a good thing to start doin'. Lloyd, can you tell me more about the scope of the document(s) you are planning? (Ie, is it setting up a server, creating webpages or using the components of twisted.web or something else?). Simon (STemplar) -----Original Message----- From: twisted-web-bounces@twistedmatrix.com [mailto:twisted-web-bounces@twistedmatrix.com] On Behalf Of Kieran Holland Sent: den 7 juli 2005 01:05 To: Discussion of twisted.web, Nevow, and Woven Subject: Re: [Twisted-web] Introduction, newbie confusion plus an offer Partly in an effort to clear up my own confusion, I have just been putting together some documentation on Stan, Nevow's document object model. This is my first draft and I am fairly new to Nevow so don't take it as gospel: http://dictator.kieranholland.com/prose/Meet%20Stan.html I would greatly value feedback from more experienced Nevow users. Kieran On 07/07/05, Ed Suominen wrote:

...

Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.)

Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web

...

channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions.

Best regards, Ed Suominen

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...
Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for

...

...
and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up

...

...
a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many

...

...
stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

Matt Goodall

8 Jul 8 Jul

1:43 a.m.

Kieran Holland wrote:

...

Partly in an effort to clear up my own confusion, I have just been putting together some documentation on Stan, Nevow's document object model. This is my first draft and I am fairly new to Nevow so don't take it as gospel:

http://dictator.kieranholland.com/prose/Meet%20Stan.html

I would greatly value feedback from more experienced Nevow users.

Wow, that's great! Thankyou. The writing style is great - it's very easy to read. There's a surprising amount of detail in there but it doesn't feel that way. I have a couple of specific comments ... "Wherever this is the case, the Stan attribute name should be prefixed or postfixed with an underscore." It's probably best to forget about the prefixed version, it's something we're trying to discourage anyway. "Pretty-printing flattened Stan" It's worth mentioning that introducing arbitrary whitespace into XHTML content can affect how the browser renders the page so it should always be double-checked for correctness. "Built in renderers of the Page class" The description of render_string should mention that it is really a debugging aid (perhaps it should be renamed?) and should never to be used to render real, human strings. render_string will break badly as soon as it meets a unicode character that cannot be encoded to ascii. render_sequence should mention that the "item" pattern is required. Once again, thanks for writing this. Cheers, Matt

...

Kieran

On 07/07/05, Ed Suominen wrote:

...
Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.)

Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions.

Best regards, Ed Suominen

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...
Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

-- __ / \__ Matt Goodall, Pollenation Internet Ltd \__/ \ w: http://www.pollenation.net __/ \__/ e: matt@pollenation.net / \__/ \ t: +44 (0)113 2252500 \__/ \__/ / \ Any views expressed are my own and do not necessarily \__/ reflect the views of my employer.

Michael M

9:32 a.m.

Great job, well written.

snacktime

7 Aug 7 Aug

2:23 a.m.

On 7/6/05, Kieran Holland wrote:

...

Partly in an effort to clear up my own confusion, I have just been putting together some documentation on Stan, Nevow's document object model. This is my first draft and I am fairly new to Nevow so don't take it as gospel:

http://dictator.kieranholland.com/prose/Meet%20Stan.html

I would greatly value feedback from more experienced Nevow users.

Kieran

I think what is needed more is feeback from inexperienced users like myself, because we are the ones that need this type of documentation. Your documentation and the xhtml templates tutorial by Donovan Preston that you had a link to are just great. But why didn't I find them on the divmod.org site or on Nevow's home page? There appears to actually be quite a bit of documentation floating around, but you have to dig and dig to find it! The examples in the distribution are very good. But not linked to from divmod.org or nevow.og. Your tutorial isn't linked to from either of these sites either. The wiki doesn't have links to these I could find, nor links to the examples included in the distribution. It seems it would take very little effort to just update the wiki with links to some of this stuff, and make some quick changes to divmod.org and nevow.org to at least point to the wiki. Ok well the divmod.org Nevow page does have a link to the wiki, but it's in small text as the very last line on the page!! Writing new documenation is a lot of work, and the stuff that Kieran and Donovan wrote is very good, not too mention the examples in the distribution which look like they took a considerable amount of effort to put together. It's a shame they are so difficult to find. Chris

Jp Calderone

3:05 a.m.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 16:23:11 -0700, snacktime wrote:

...

On 7/6/05, Kieran Holland wrote:

...
Partly in an effort to clear up my own confusion, I have just been putting together some documentation on Stan, Nevow's document object model. This is my first draft and I am fairly new to Nevow so don't take it as gospel:

http://dictator.kieranholland.com/prose/Meet%20Stan.html

I would greatly value feedback from more experienced Nevow users.

Kieran

I think what is needed more is feeback from inexperienced users like myself, because we are the ones that need this type of documentation. Your documentation and the xhtml templates tutorial by Donovan Preston that you had a link to are just great. But why didn't I find them on the divmod.org site or on Nevow's home page? There appears to actually be quite a bit of documentation floating around, but you have to dig and dig to find it!

I've added a couple links to the end of the divmod.org Nevow Project page. If there are other good resources out there that aren't linked, please let me know and I'll update the page again. Thanks for agitating, Jp

Kieran Holland

3:30 a.m.

...

I've added a couple links to the end of the divmod.org Nevow Project page. If there are other > good resources out there that aren't linked, please let me know and I'll update the page again.

Thanks for agitating,

Jp

I am touching up the article 'Meet Stan' as I pick up new things and, if I can find the time, I would like to try to tackle a few other topics causing mass-confusion. If people are finding my article useful then I wonder if it, and purported future vapour-articles, would be better hosted on divmod? Personally I wouldn't trust the existing URL not to disappear off the face of the earth without reasonable warning. I would be happy to refactor out the introductory spiel and end-musings to give it more of a documentation flavour. Kieran

Matt Goodall

12:57 p.m.

Kieran Holland wrote:

...

...
I've added a couple links to the end of the divmod.org Nevow Project page. If there are other > good resources out there that aren't linked, please let me know and I'll update the page again.

Thanks for agitating,

Jp

I am touching up the article 'Meet Stan' as I pick up new things and, if I can find the time, I would like to try to tackle a few other topics causing mass-confusion.

That would be wonderful!

...

If people are finding my article useful then I wonder if it, and purported future vapour-articles, would be better hosted on divmod? Personally I wouldn't trust the existing URL not to disappear off the face of the earth without reasonable warning. I would be happy to refactor out the introductory spiel and end-musings to give it more of a documentation flavour.

It's probably best to include "Meet Stan" in Nevow's source. Those documents are currently published on divmod.org (although not in a great place) so this one would get added to the list on next update. - Matt -- __ / \__ Matt Goodall, Pollenation Internet Ltd \__/ \ w: http://www.pollenation.net __/ \__/ e: matt@pollenation.net / \__/ \ t: +44 (0)113 2252500 \__/ \__/ / \ Any views expressed are my own and do not necessarily \__/ reflect the views of my employer.

Matt Goodall

7 Jul 7 Jul

12:30 p.m.

Ed Suominen wrote:

...

Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.)

Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions.

Same for me. I'll do what I can to help anyone volenteering to write docs. Thanks for the help, Lloyd. - Matt

...

Best regards, Ed Suominen

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...
Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann

12:51 p.m.

Can someone tell me where Nevow starts and where Twisted ends? I think Nevow needs Twisted but where is the development source held? Is it at nevow.com divmod.org or in the Twisted source tree? Thanks in advance. Ed Suominen wrote:

...

Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.)

Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions.

Best regards, Ed Suominen

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...
Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

Matt Goodall

1:03 p.m.

Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann wrote:

...

Can someone tell me where Nevow starts and where Twisted ends? I think Nevow needs Twisted but where is the development source held? Is it at nevow.com divmod.org or in the Twisted source tree?

Nevow code is at divmod.org. Twisted code is at twistedmatrix.com. Strictly speaking, Nevow doesn't need Twisted or rather, Nevow should be able to function without Twisted. However, there are twisted imports and a few Twisted-specific bits of code in Nevow. To be honest, I'm not sure if anyone is that interested in *completely* separating Nevow from Twisted. You can use Nevow outside of a Twisted event loop anyway. Note that some of the Nevow concepts are moving back into twisted.web2. At some point Nevow will start using t.web2 and, hopefully, we'll be able to remove (with backwards compatability) module from Nevow and rely on the t.web2 equivalents. Hope that helps. - Matt

...

Thanks in advance.

Ed Suominen wrote:

...
Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.) Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions.

Best regards, Ed Suominen

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...
Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann

2:04 p.m.

Thank you. My confusion came from being on the twisted and nevow lists. Should we discuss nevow here or on divmod? Matt Goodall wrote:

...

Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann wrote:

...
Can someone tell me where Nevow starts and where Twisted ends? I think Nevow needs Twisted but where is the development source held? Is it at nevow.com divmod.org or in the Twisted source tree?

Nevow code is at divmod.org. Twisted code is at twistedmatrix.com.

Strictly speaking, Nevow doesn't need Twisted or rather, Nevow should be able to function without Twisted. However, there are twisted imports and a few Twisted-specific bits of code in Nevow.

To be honest, I'm not sure if anyone is that interested in *completely* separating Nevow from Twisted. You can use Nevow outside of a Twisted event loop anyway.

Note that some of the Nevow concepts are moving back into twisted.web2. At some point Nevow will start using t.web2 and, hopefully, we'll be able to remove (with backwards compatability) module from Nevow and rely on the t.web2 equivalents.

Hope that helps.

- Matt

...
Thanks in advance.

Ed Suominen wrote:

...
Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.) Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions.

Best regards, Ed Suominen

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...
Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

Matt Goodall

2:18 p.m.

Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann wrote:

...

Thank you. My confusion came from being on the twisted and nevow lists.

Should we discuss nevow here or on divmod?

Here in twisted-web. AFAIK, there is no Nevow discussion on divmod but it may be that I'm not subscribed to the right divmod list ;-). - Matt

...

Matt Goodall wrote:

...
Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann wrote:

...
Can someone tell me where Nevow starts and where Twisted ends? I think Nevow needs Twisted but where is the development source held? Is it at nevow.com divmod.org or in the Twisted source tree?

Nevow code is at divmod.org. Twisted code is at twistedmatrix.com.

Strictly speaking, Nevow doesn't need Twisted or rather, Nevow should be able to function without Twisted. However, there are twisted imports and a few Twisted-specific bits of code in Nevow.

To be honest, I'm not sure if anyone is that interested in *completely* separating Nevow from Twisted. You can use Nevow outside of a Twisted event loop anyway.

Note that some of the Nevow concepts are moving back into twisted.web2. At some point Nevow will start using t.web2 and, hopefully, we'll be able to remove (with backwards compatability) module from Nevow and rely on the t.web2 equivalents.

Hope that helps.

- Matt

...
Thanks in advance.

Ed Suominen wrote:

...
Lloyd, as a fairly experienced Nevow user who has gone through the same frustrations, I'll gladly help to the extent what you're writing about applies to Nevow. I understand that Twisted.web2 is more like Nevow than Twisted.web, so that may make sense. (Actually, you may want to use Nevow -- check it out at http://nevow.org/.) Contact me directly if interested. Also, don't forget the #twisted.web channel on the Freenode IRC server, which is an excellent real-time resource that has helped me a great deal with questions.

Best regards, Ed Suominen

On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 14:33 -0400, lloyd@paisite.com wrote:

...
Hello,

I'm Lloyd, I'm baffled, and I'd like to offer my modest talents to help others like me come up to speed with Twisted.web in record time.

I've been looking for a way to bring a large ColdFusion application over to Python. Twisted.web looks to offer all that I could wish for and more. The work to date is awe-inspiring. But... the documentation, well-intentioned as it is, and much more ample than in many Open Source projects, truly baffles me.

I'm first to admit my limitations: I'm still in the early learning stages of Python; I understand OO conceptually, but have little experience writing or reading OO code; and, approaching the golden years, undoubtably have far fewer functioning neurons than most of the subscribers to this list, much less the brilliant young turks who have created the Twisted framework.

But, browsing through the archives, it's clear that I am not alone in my confusion.

So, I'd like to make a proposal:

I have many years of writing and editing experience. Back in the days when personal computers were still connected to audio cassette recorders, and I was as excited but unenlightened about PCs as I am now about Twisted, I contributed three well-received articles to Personal Computing magazine under the name Techo Turkey. These helped readers hook up IBM Selectric Terminals to their new PCs, create a computer-controlled haunted house for Halloween, and set up a computer-controlled home security system.

I would like now to offer to write some supplementary documentation for Twisted.web aimed at turkeys like me -- the really really basic stuff plus sure-to-work examples that can bring even Mickey-the-Dunce to sufficient level of understanding that he can participate creatively in the Twisted community.

The catch: I need knowledgeable folks willing to answer my many many stupid questions like, once you've installed Twisted from, say, Debian, where should what files go and how should permissions be defined? Undoubtably these generous mentors would also need to critique my newbie code and perhaps, even, submit examples of their own. Who know, maybe we could even get a book out of it.

Any takers?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

_______________________________________________ Twisted-web mailing list Twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-web

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Ed Suominen
Jp Calderone
Kieran Holland
lloyd＠paisite.com
Matt Goodall
Michael M
Simon Hedberg
snacktime
Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann

Introduction, newbie confusion plus an offer

lloyd＠paisite.com

Ed Suominen

Kieran Holland

Simon Hedberg

Matt Goodall

Michael M

snacktime

Jp Calderone

Kieran Holland

Matt Goodall

Matt Goodall

Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann

Matt Goodall

Uwe (Peter) Feldtmann

Matt Goodall

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