[Twisted-Python] revisiting onboarding
A few months ago, the question of an official process for obtaining commit access was raised. The discussion lead to this proposal - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Proposal/ContributorAdvancementPath <https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Proposal/ContributorAdvancementPath>. I like that proposal, but it is still incomplete: to wit, it defines a template for how roles might be defined but does not actually define any roles. It also seems to be a bit overly ambitious, just from the observed reaction of nobody having the time to implement it :). So I have a proposal for a scaled back process that nevertheless would give us something official-ish: Not all committers are actively involved in the project at all times, so we should form a "committer committee" of people who are interested in evaluating candidates. If you would like to do that and you're already a committer, please contact me and I'll add you to the list. I want to do this so there's somewhere to apply to which isn't just a public mailing list or discussion, since public discussions can create social pressure to grant someone commit just to be nice, and rejections might be perceived as mean. Candidates should submit an application to this new list, commit@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:commit@twistedmatrix.com> which is a list of links to at least 10 tickets, at least 5 of which are patches they've submitted, and at least 5 of which are code reviews they've done which have been accepted by a committer. At least 2 of their authored patches should have gone all the way through the process to be landed. As with the other parts of our process, if there is at least one sponsor, and no objections from anyone on the committee within 7 days, any member of the committee may add the committer. New committers should then be announced on the mailing list. This is not really an ideal process - particularly, it lacks a good way to give contributors something specific and useful to do - but it's something at least. If there is general assent that this is an improvement, I'll go make a wiki page and a mailing list. -glyph
Glyph, I support this idea. I like the fact that it gives a clear goal (5 submitted patches, 5 reviews, and 2 accepted submissions) towards which people interested in committing can work. -Chris (herrwolfe)
On Feb 2, 2015, at 1:18 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
A few months ago, the question of an official process for obtaining commit access was raised.
The discussion lead to this proposal - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Proposal/ContributorAdvancementPath <https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Proposal/ContributorAdvancementPath>. I like that proposal, but it is still incomplete: to wit, it defines a template for how roles might be defined but does not actually define any roles. It also seems to be a bit overly ambitious, just from the observed reaction of nobody having the time to implement it :).
So I have a proposal for a scaled back process that nevertheless would give us something official-ish:
Not all committers are actively involved in the project at all times, so we should form a "committer committee" of people who are interested in evaluating candidates. If you would like to do that and you're already a committer, please contact me and I'll add you to the list. I want to do this so there's somewhere to apply to which isn't just a public mailing list or discussion, since public discussions can create social pressure to grant someone commit just to be nice, and rejections might be perceived as mean.
Candidates should submit an application to this new list, commit@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:commit@twistedmatrix.com> which is a list of links to at least 10 tickets, at least 5 of which are patches they've submitted, and at least 5 of which are code reviews they've done which have been accepted by a committer. At least 2 of their authored patches should have gone all the way through the process to be landed.
As with the other parts of our process, if there is at least one sponsor, and no objections from anyone on the committee within 7 days, any member of the committee may add the committer.
New committers should then be announced on the mailing list.
This is not really an ideal process - particularly, it lacks a good way to give contributors something specific and useful to do - but it's something at least. If there is general assent that this is an improvement, I'll go make a wiki page and a mailing list.
-glyph
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On 2 February 2015 at 19:18, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote: [snip]
Candidates should submit an application to this new list, commit@twistedmatrix.com which is a list of links to at least 10 tickets, at least 5 of which are patches they've submitted, and at least 5 of which are code reviews they've done which have been accepted by a committer. At least 2 of their authored patches should have gone all the way through the process to be landed.
I am not a supporter of private discussions for public projects... but I am ok with having something. I agree that Twisted general discussion Open source contributors should take a rejection as an opportunity to improve. Open source maintainer should not accept patches or add new contributors just to be nice. I would say that we should ask for 5 patches which were merged. I find that 2 patches are too few. Also 2 patches for cleanup jobs are fine, but I don't think that they are enough.
As with the other parts of our process, if there is at least one sponsor, and no objections from anyone on the committee within 7 days, any member of the committee may add the committer.
New committers should then be announced on the mailing list.
This is not really an ideal process - particularly, it lacks a good way to give contributors something specific and useful to do - but it's something at least. If there is general assent that this is an improvement, I'll go make a wiki page and a mailing list.
Should be a start and much better than current process. As soon as the committee is in place I will apply for commit rights to practice the process and also validate that I deserve the commit right. Meanwhile I will start recording my activity. For new contributors, I suggest that they can create a wiki page to keep track of the tickets. I have no idea how you can use Trac report to give you a list of tickets you have reviewer or you have contributed patches to. ------ Since some Twisted related project are on GitHub it would be nice to discuss some direction about how to get edit rights for those projects. Thanks! -- Adi
On Feb 3, 2015, at 3:26 AM, Adi Roiban <adi@roiban.ro> wrote:
On 2 February 2015 at 19:18, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote: [snip]
Candidates should submit an application to this new list, commit@twistedmatrix.com which is a list of links to at least 10 tickets, at least 5 of which are patches they've submitted, and at least 5 of which are code reviews they've done which have been accepted by a committer. At least 2 of their authored patches should have gone all the way through the process to be landed.
I am not a supporter of private discussions for public projects... but I am ok with having something. I agree that Twisted general discussion
As a general rule I would agree with these sentiments, but generally, open projects are discussing specific bits of code. In this case, we're talking about actually evaluating people as worthy or unworthy of commit access.
Open source contributors should take a rejection as an opportunity to improve.
Sure, we accept this as part of the normal review process. And we accept it here as well, as part of a private discussion. But it is hard to accept public shaming as an opportunity to improve. Private feedback is much easier to give, and it is much easier for the contributor to take.
Open source maintainer should not accept patches or add new contributors just to be nice.
We do not have trouble rejecting patches, because we are able to keep the focus entirely on the patch, because that is what is being evaluated, and not the contributor. Of course here the focus should be entirely on the work too, but it is hard enough to keep the discussion centered that way in code review :).
I would say that we should ask for 5 patches which were merged. I find that 2 patches are too few.
This is more of a minimum; if they are 2 substantial patches, that seems like more than enough. But the committee reserves the right to say "this is not enough significant work".
Also 2 patches for cleanup jobs are fine, but I don't think that they are enough.
As with the other parts of our process, if there is at least one sponsor, and no objections from anyone on the committee within 7 days, any member of the committee may add the committer.
New committers should then be announced on the mailing list.
This is not really an ideal process - particularly, it lacks a good way to give contributors something specific and useful to do - but it's something at least. If there is general assent that this is an improvement, I'll go make a wiki page and a mailing list.
Should be a start and much better than current process.
As soon as the committee is in place I will apply for commit rights to practice the process and also validate that I deserve the commit right.
Thank you for volunteering :-).
Meanwhile I will start recording my activity.
For new contributors, I suggest that they can create a wiki page to keep track of the tickets.
That sounds like a great idea.
I have no idea how you can use Trac report to give you a list of tickets you have reviewer or you have contributed patches to.
I'm not sure if external contributors have enough access to the SQL. Maybe we can make a report that queries the database directly rather than going through trac, like <http://twistedmatrix.com/highscores/>.
------
Since some Twisted related project are on GitHub it would be nice to discuss some direction about how to get edit rights for those projects.
Thanks!
I think we should probably follow the same process; the main question is whether each project should have its own set of core reviewers. I honestly don't have an idea for that :). -glyph
On 4 February 2015 at 06:29, Glyph <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
On Feb 3, 2015, at 3:26 AM, Adi Roiban <adi@roiban.ro> wrote:
On 2 February 2015 at 19:18, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
[snip]
Meanwhile I will start recording my activity.
For new contributors, I suggest that they can create a wiki page to keep track of the tickets.
That sounds like a great idea.
here you go https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/users/adiroiban
I have no idea how you can use Trac report to give you a list of tickets you have reviewer or you have contributed patches to.
I'm not sure if external contributors have enough access to the SQL. Maybe we can make a report that queries the database directly rather than going through trac, like <http://twistedmatrix.com/highscores/>.
I used the git log / email search to compile current data... but I assume that candidates will update the wiki page in an incremental way. The enhancement ticket type is a bit to generic for this purpose... but I prefer to keep ticket metadata simple and maybe candidates can set some tags to help with queries. -- Adi Roiban
Hi, Has this proposal been accepted? Is there anything I can do to help implement it? -Chris On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Tom Prince <tom.prince@ualberta.net> wrote:
Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> writes:
So I have a proposal for a scaled back process that nevertheless would give us something official-ish: <..details...>
I support this proposal.
Tom
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-- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com
I think we can consider it tacitly accepted by the community (nobody seemed to object) but we still don't have anyone to implement it. Do you want to step up to do that? :) -g
On Apr 27, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Has this proposal been accepted? Is there anything I can do to help implement it?
-Chris
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Tom Prince <tom.prince@ualberta.net <mailto:tom.prince@ualberta.net>> wrote: Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:glyph@twistedmatrix.com>> writes:
So I have a proposal for a scaled back process that nevertheless would give us something official-ish: <..details...>
I support this proposal.
Tom
_______________________________________________ Twisted-Python mailing list Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com> http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python <http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python>
-- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com <mailto:chriswwolfe@gmail.com>
Sure! I can only think of three things that need to be done: 1. Add a wiki page detailing the process you proposed. It may be helpful to display an example email showing what should be included in a new contributor request. The following pages should have links to the new policy: - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedDevelopment#Policies - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/ContributingToTwistedLabs I can create the wiki page and the example email. To do so, I'll need to get wiki permissions added to my trac account. 2. Activate the email address commit@twistedmatrix.com and compile a list of people to whom new commit requests should be sent for review. I can't do this. 3. Send an email to the general mailing list once the new pages are up to announce the new advancement path. I can do this. Is there anything I'm missing? - Chris // herrwolfe On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
I think we can consider it tacitly accepted by the community (nobody seemed to object) but we still don't have anyone to implement it. Do you want to step up to do that? :)
-g
On Apr 27, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Has this proposal been accepted? Is there anything I can do to help implement it?
-Chris
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Tom Prince <tom.prince@ualberta.net> wrote:
Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> writes:
So I have a proposal for a scaled back process that nevertheless would give us something official-ish: <..details...>
I support this proposal.
Tom
_______________________________________________ Twisted-Python mailing list Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python
-- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com
-- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com
Can you send me an iCalendar invite of some kind to give you all the relevant permissions? I would definitely like to volunteer to do it, but if we don't have a specific time, I will 100% guarantee you that I will forget :). -glyph P.S.: I've been setting a bad example, but we should generally be bottom-posting on this list, it makes the conversation easier to follow :).
On Apr 28, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com> wrote:
Sure! I can only think of three things that need to be done:
1. Add a wiki page detailing the process you proposed. It may be helpful to display an example email showing what should be included in a new contributor request. The following pages should have links to the new policy: - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedDevelopment#Policies <https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedDevelopment#Policies> - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/ContributingToTwistedLabs <https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/ContributingToTwistedLabs>
I can create the wiki page and the example email. To do so, I'll need to get wiki permissions added to my trac account.
2. Activate the email address commit@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:commit@twistedmatrix.com> and compile a list of people to whom new commit requests should be sent for review. I can't do this.
3. Send an email to the general mailing list once the new pages are up to announce the new advancement path. I can do this.
Is there anything I'm missing?
- Chris // herrwolfe
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:glyph@twistedmatrix.com>> wrote: I think we can consider it tacitly accepted by the community (nobody seemed to object) but we still don't have anyone to implement it. Do you want to step up to do that? :)
-g
On Apr 27, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com <mailto:chriswwolfe@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,
Has this proposal been accepted? Is there anything I can do to help implement it?
-Chris
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Tom Prince <tom.prince@ualberta.net <mailto:tom.prince@ualberta.net>> wrote: Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:glyph@twistedmatrix.com>> writes:
So I have a proposal for a scaled back process that nevertheless would give us something official-ish: <..details...>
I support this proposal.
Tom
_______________________________________________ Twisted-Python mailing list Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com> http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python <http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python>
-- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com <mailto:chriswwolfe@gmail.com>
-- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com <mailto:chriswwolfe@gmail.com>
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
Can you send me an iCalendar invite of some kind to give you all the relevant permissions? I would definitely like to volunteer to do it, but if we don't have a specific time, I will 100% guarantee you that I will forget :).
-glyph
P.S.: I've been setting a bad example, but we should generally be bottom-posting on this list, it makes the conversation easier to follow :).
On Apr 28, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com> wrote:
Sure! I can only think of three things that need to be done:
1. Add a wiki page detailing the process you proposed. It may be helpful to display an example email showing what should be included in a new contributor request. The following pages should have links to the new policy: - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedDevelopment#Policies - https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/ContributingToTwistedLabs
I can create the wiki page and the example email. To do so, I'll need to get wiki permissions added to my trac account.
2. Activate the email address commit@twistedmatrix.com and compile a list of people to whom new commit requests should be sent for review. I can't do this.
3. Send an email to the general mailing list once the new pages are up to announce the new advancement path. I can do this.
Is there anything I'm missing?
- Chris // herrwolfe
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
I think we can consider it tacitly accepted by the community (nobody seemed to object) but we still don't have anyone to implement it. Do you want to step up to do that? :)
-g
On Apr 27, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Has this proposal been accepted? Is there anything I can do to help implement it?
-Chris
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Tom Prince <tom.prince@ualberta.net> wrote:
Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> writes:
So I have a proposal for a scaled back process that nevertheless would give us something official-ish: <..details...>
I support this proposal.
Tom
_______________________________________________ Twisted-Python mailing list Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python
-- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com
-- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com
Hi, I've added a draft wiki page detailing the contributor advancement path. The page is located at https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Drafts/ContributorAdvancementPath. If anyone has any feedback on the document, please feel free to either edit the wiki or send me an email through the mailing list. If there aren't any objections to what I've written by June 5, I will move it out of the drafts section and link it up to the other documentation. Thanks! Chris -- Chris Wolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com
On May 26, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com> wrote:
I've added a draft wiki page detailing the contributor advancement path. The page is located at https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Drafts/ContributorAdvancementPath <https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Drafts/ContributorAdvancementPath>.
If anyone has any feedback on the document, please feel free to either edit the wiki or send me an email through the mailing list. If there aren't any objections to what I've written by June 5, I will move it out of the drafts section and link it up to the other documentation.
Thanks for doing this, Chris! I am looking forward to folks filling this out :). -glyph
On 2 February 2015 at 19:18, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote: [snip]
Not all committers are actively involved in the project at all times, so we should form a "committer committee" of people who are interested in evaluating candidates. If you would like to do that and you're already a committer, please contact me and I'll add you to the list.
It looks like this new process has stalled on the formation of the committee to review new contributor requests. As of right now, the committee has no members. :-) This email is a call for volunteers. If you would like to serve on the committee, please reply to this thread and state that you are interested in serving on the committee. Once enough volunteers have signed up, new contributor requests will be sent to the committee's mailing list. Thanks! -- Chris Wolfe / herrwolfe chriswwolfe@gmail.com
On Oct 26, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 February 2015 at 19:18, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com <mailto:glyph@twistedmatrix.com>> wrote: [snip]
Not all committers are actively involved in the project at all times, so we should form a "committer committee" of people who are interested in evaluating candidates. If you would like to do that and you're already a committer, please contact me and I'll add you to the list.
It looks like this new process has stalled on the formation of the committee to review new contributor requests. As of right now, the committee has no members. :-)
This email is a call for volunteers. If you would like to serve on the committee, please reply to this thread and state that you are interested in serving on the committee. Once enough volunteers have signed up, new contributor requests will be sent to the committee's mailing list.
I'm going to go a step further and say that you do not need to be a committer yourself to be on this mailing list. Being a committer is a technical qualification; this is a people process. If you want to become a committer you will of course have to recuse yourself from a decision about yourself :), but otherwise I'm happy to have people who haven't cleared this process themselves participate in it, as long as they follow the process and evaluate folks fairly. -glyph
On 27 Oct 2015, at 04:52, Chris Wolfe <chriswwolfe@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 February 2015 at 19:18, Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph@twistedmatrix.com> wrote: [snip]
Not all committers are actively involved in the project at all times, so we should form a "committer committee" of people who are interested in evaluating candidates. If you would like to do that and you're already a committer, please contact me and I'll add you to the list.
It looks like this new process has stalled on the formation of the committee to review new contributor requests. As of right now, the committee has no members. :-)
This email is a call for volunteers. If you would like to serve on the committee, please reply to this thread and state that you are interested in serving on the committee. Once enough volunteers have signed up, new contributor requests will be sent to the committee's mailing list.
I'm happy to be on this. - Amber
participants (7)
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Adi Roiban -
Amber "Hawkie" Brown -
Chris -
Chris Wolfe
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Glyph -
Glyph Lefkowitz
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Tom Prince