[Twisted-Python] April 20 Sprint
We're planning on having a sprint at the Divmod and Synthesis Studios offices in Cambridge, MA on April 20. While I know that some people who might be there will probably be working on twisted.conch, twisted.words, and twisted.web, the main purpose of these sprints is to help facilitate the expansion of the Twisted community. This sprint will have a little more planning than the last 3, which is to say "some, but not much". I'd like to get a feel for how many people would like to come, and maybe even get the foundation to buy us a pizza or something. I, for one, will definitely be there, of course. If you will be too, please reply to this message. I have specifically avoided mentioning any probable attendees by name so that you will all chime in and hopefully attract some more people :). Also, if you want to host a parallel sprint in a different city, it would be great to keep the momentum rolling all the way across the globe; we could reduce review latency by having reviews taking place at the sprints as well, after the earlier ones have ended. Sydney and the Bay Area, I'm talking to you. The sun never sets on the Twisted empire, after all. And that is why we must destroy it, so we can all get some rest.
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:07 AM, <glyph@divmod.com> wrote:
Also, if you want to host a parallel sprint in a different city, it would be great to keep the momentum rolling all the way across the globe; we could reduce review latency by having reviews taking place at the sprints as well, after the earlier ones have ended. Sydney and the Bay Area, I'm talking to you. The sun never sets on the Twisted empire, after all. And that is why we must destroy it, so we can all get some rest.
Sunday 20 wouldn't be bad for me. I have spare time sunday and sprinting on twisted.web is a nice thing to do, maybe implementing HTTP 1.1 for real rather than simply chunking (which I still need to finish)? If no-one wants to join me I'll sprint alone :) -- Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone Now running MacOS X 10.5 Home Page: http://www.twisted.it
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Valentino Volonghi <dialtone@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:07 AM, <glyph@divmod.com> wrote:
Also, if you want to host a parallel sprint in a different city, it would be great to keep the momentum rolling all the way across the globe; we could reduce review latency by having reviews taking place at the sprints as well, after the earlier ones have ended. Sydney and the Bay Area, I'm talking to you. The sun never sets on the Twisted empire, after all. And that is why we must destroy it, so we can all get some rest.
Sunday 20 wouldn't be bad for me. I have spare time sunday and sprinting on twisted.web is a nice thing to do, maybe implementing HTTP 1.1 for real rather than simply chunking (which I still need to finish)?
Hi, Would it be possible for someone to give a high level over-view of the current state of the web/web2 code in Twisted? I know that even pretty recently there was a thread discussing web/web2, but it looks like (from our view, the regular users :) that things are changing again. In particular this ticket: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/3142 Which contains this comment from a core developer: "twisted.web2 is being phased out in favor of twisted.web." For those who have been following the web/web2 state for some time now, they might be a little confused as this point. I myself having been using twisted.web2 for a while now, and I also know of several other projects that are doing the same. I also have done a good amount of diving into the source code, trying to maybe someday understand enough to contribute back, and I hope to keep up with the current status as best as possible. Any comments that point towards the current state of any of the parts of web/web2 (what's "good", what's "bad", in the developers' opinion), would be very appreciated. Thanks for the great code, Alex
If no-one wants to join me I'll sprint alone :)
-- Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone Now running MacOS X 10.5 Home Page: http://www.twisted.it
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I myself having been using twisted.web2 for a while now, and I also know of several other projects that are doing the same. I also have done a good amount of diving into the source code, trying to maybe someday understand enough to contribute back, and I hope to keep up with the current status as best as possible.
Any comments that point towards the current state of any of the parts of web/web2 (what's "good", what's "bad", in the developers' opinion), would be very appreciated.
Wow, we have been using web2 in ipython and this it is news to us as well that web2 is being phased out. Brian
Thanks for the great code, Alex
If no-one wants to join me I'll sprint alone :)
-- Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone Now running MacOS X 10.5 Home Page: http://www.twisted.it
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On Apr 7, 2008, at 5:26 PM, Brian Granger wrote:
I myself having been using twisted.web2 for a while now, and I also know of several other projects that are doing the same. I also have done a good amount of diving into the source code, trying to maybe someday understand enough to contribute back, and I hope to keep up with the current status as best as possible.
Any comments that point towards the current state of any of the parts of web/web2 (what's "good", what's "bad", in the developers' opinion), would be very appreciated.
Wow, we have been using web2 in ipython and this it is news to us as well that web2 is being phased out.
I wish that people hadn't said that at this point, but since it's been said... The problem, basically, is that I started the web2 and never finished it. At the current rate of development (really slow), there's a real fear that it'll never be finished. So, some (who actually are doing development on twisted...) feel that it would be better to take the more finished parts of web2 and re-integrate them into web, piece by piece. I'm wary of this scheme, and I can't say I can see it being successful, but perhaps it's worth the shot. My goal with web2 was to provide 99% compatibility with web1 *resources*, but forgo compatibility at the other integration points. I still think this is a feasible goal to accomplish. The goal with the "phase-out" plan is to provide complete compatibility with all web1 integration points *and* add the new features from web2 to web1. If this can be accomplished, great; I just can't say I see it being that feasible, and I certainly am having trouble thinking that it can get done *faster*. But in any case, the take-home message of this alternate plan should not be "web2 is being phased out", but rather, "web2's improvements are being absorbed back into web." IMO, it remains to be seen whether or not that can actually happen, but I don't think current users have any serious reason for alarm at that prospect. James
[cross-posting to twisted-web, as this is probably of interest there ...] James Y Knight wrote:
On Apr 7, 2008, at 5:26 PM, Brian Granger wrote:
I myself having been using twisted.web2 for a while now, and I also know of several other projects that are doing the same. I also have done a good amount of diving into the source code, trying to maybe someday understand enough to contribute back, and I hope to keep up with the current status as best as possible.
Any comments that point towards the current state of any of the parts of web/web2 (what's "good", what's "bad", in the developers' opinion), would be very appreciated.
Wow, we have been using web2 in ipython and this it is news to us as well that web2 is being phased out.
I wish that people hadn't said that at this point, but since it's been said...
The problem, basically, is that I started the web2 and never finished it. At the current rate of development (really slow), there's a real fear that it'll never be finished. So, some (who actually are doing development on twisted...) feel that it would be better to take the more finished parts of web2 and re-integrate them into web, piece by piece.
I'm wary of this scheme, and I can't say I can see it being successful, but perhaps it's worth the shot.
My goal with web2 was to provide 99% compatibility with web1 *resources*, but forgo compatibility at the other integration points. I still think this is a feasible goal to accomplish. The goal with the "phase-out" plan is to provide complete compatibility with all web1 integration points *and* add the new features from web2 to web1. If this can be accomplished, great; I just can't say I see it being that feasible, and I certainly am having trouble thinking that it can get done *faster*.
But in any case, the take-home message of this alternate plan should not be "web2 is being phased out", but rather, "web2's improvements are being absorbed back into web." IMO, it remains to be seen whether or not that can actually happen, but I don't think current users have any serious reason for alarm at that prospect.
The most important overall message would seem to be: use web[1], since even if web2 is not phased out, as much as possible of web2 is being "back-ported" to web[1], and there will probably be a relatively easy migration path to web2 if/when it is completed at some point in the future. No? Steve
The most important overall message would seem to be: use web[1], since even if web2 is not phased out, as much as possible of web2 is being "back-ported" to web[1], and there will probably be a relatively easy migration path to web2 if/when it is completed at some point in the future.
For us the only reason we moved to web2 was the http1.1 support. Until web has that implemented, we will have a tough time moing back to web2. But at least we know the direction things are headed. Brian
No?
Steve
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On 09:26 pm, ellisonbg.net@gmail.com wrote:
Wow, we have been using web2 in ipython and this it is news to us as well that web2 is being phased out.
We are not going to be removing any functionality that is present in web2. See the link I posted in my last response - http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedWebPlan - for more details. The general idea is that all the good / new stuff in twisted.web2 will be made available somewhere in twisted.web. All the bad, broken, or unfinished stuff will be removed - but it's doubtful you even would have been able to use this stuff in ipython; and if you did, then I'm sure you'll be happy to have a version that actually works :). The thing that is being phased out is the twisted.web2 *namespace*, not all of the code.
Just read your TwistedWebPlan and it sounds better than what I was able to dream up during my sufferings. I know that without all the foundation work going into twisted and nevow I would never have been able to build a stable running production game server. So it's good to know in what direction things evolve! A big 'thank you' (drawing my hat and bowing)! Werner glyph@divmod.com wrote: ...snip
http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedWebPlan - for more details. snip...
On 01:29 pm, wthie@thiengineering.ch wrote:
Just read your TwistedWebPlan and it sounds better than what I was able to dream up during my sufferings.
I know that without all the foundation work going into twisted and nevow I would never have been able to build a stable running production game server. So it's good to know in what direction things evolve!
A big 'thank you' (drawing my hat and bowing)!
No problem! We should have done this a long time ago. The biggest thanks, of course, would be simply to submit patches for twisted.web and help us migrate web2's "greatest hits" back into the twisted.web server :).
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:01 PM, <glyph@divmod.com> wrote:
On 01:29 pm, wthie@thiengineering.ch wrote:
Just read your TwistedWebPlan and it sounds better than what I was able to dream up during my sufferings.
I know that without all the foundation work going into twisted and nevow I would never have been able to build a stable running production game server. So it's good to know in what direction things evolve!
A big 'thank you' (drawing my hat and bowing)!
No problem! We should have done this a long time ago.
The biggest thanks, of course, would be simply to submit patches for twisted.web and help us migrate web2's "greatest hits" back into the twisted.web server :).
Yes, the TwistedWebPlan looks like a Good Thing. One question though, what are the "greatest hits" of web2 in the developers opinions? I think this is an important step in making it possible for people (non experts) to efficiently target what is "good", so that they might have a chance to contribute patches efficiently. I've looked through the web/web2 source code and all the unittests enough to know that mostly the "issues" are a "problem of perception" (see http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedWebPlan). So I bet more communication (on the wiki) would help prevent further problems of this nature. A quick "brain dump" of these "good" and "bad" pieces on some wiki page would probably get some momentum going! Thanks, Alex
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On Apr 8, 2008, at 5:01 PM, glyph@divmod.com wrote:
On 01:29 pm, wthie@thiengineering.ch wrote:
A big 'thank you' (drawing my hat and bowing)!
No problem! We should have done this a long time ago.
The biggest thanks, of course, would be simply to submit patches for twisted.web and help us migrate web2's "greatest hits" back into the twisted.web server :).
Since we're, you know, talking about it... I'd really love it if someone could help me with my web1 port of web2's WSGI module. It's completely functional, and no longer has any dependencies on web2, but it needs unit tests. http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/2753 I started working on imitating the test for the web2 version (twisted/ web2/test/test_wsgi.py), but it's been idling in my workspace for some time, so I thought I'd just put a feeler out for anyone willing to give it a try, or even (gasp!) write some tests. ;-) I am using this in a production site, so I have great faith in it at least not having any show-stopper issues, but I just haven't gotten a chance to finish the tests. -phil
glyph@divmod.com wrote:
On 01:29 pm, wthie@thiengineering.ch wrote:
Just read your TwistedWebPlan and it sounds better than what I was able to dream up during my sufferings.
I know that without all the foundation work going into twisted and nevow I would never have been able to build a stable running production game server. So it's good to know in what direction things evolve!
A big 'thank you' (drawing my hat and bowing)!
No problem! We should have done this a long time ago.
The biggest thanks, of course, would be simply to submit patches for twisted.web and help us migrate web2's "greatest hits" back into the twisted.web server :).
Is there a trac report with tickets for the desired work(s)? Or a list of things that we can open trac tickets on?
On 09:07 pm, clemesha@gmail.com wrote:
Would it be possible for someone to give a high level over-view of the current state of the web/web2 code in Twisted?
I don't have time to do a full overview of what's good, what's bad, and what's ugly in every module in web, web2, and nevow, but we did make some decisions about where things are going in the *future* at PyCon. I should have done this already, but I just did a brief overview of the write-up on the wiki: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedWebPlan Wiki editors, please add links in the appropriate places. Users, what do you think? If you would like clarifications and edits to this plan, please ask. More developers than just me should know what's going on and I hope we can all keep expanding that page to give the best picture of what's going on ...
I don't have time to do a full overview of what's good, what's bad, and what's ugly in every module in web, web2, and nevow, but we did make some decisions about where things are going in the *future* at PyCon.
This is great news. I think the decision to merge things in web2 back into web is a good one as well.
I should have done this already, but I just did a brief overview of the write-up on the wiki: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedWebPlan
Wiki editors, please add links in the appropriate places.
Users, what do you think? If you would like clarifications and edits to this plan, please ask. More developers than just me should know what's going on and I hope we can all keep expanding that page to give the best picture of what's going on ...
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On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:07 AM, <glyph@divmod.com> wrote:
I, for one, will definitely be there, of course. If you will be too, please reply to this message. I have specifically avoided mentioning any probable attendees by name so that you will all chime in and hopefully attract some more people :).
I too, barring some freak incident, will be in attendance. -p -- Paul Swartz paulswartz at gmail dot com http://z3p.jot.com/ AIM: z3penguin
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:07 AM, <glyph@divmod.com> wrote:
I, for one, will definitely be there, of course. If you will be too, please reply to this message. I have specifically avoided mentioning any probable attendees by name so that you will all chime in and hopefully attract some more people :).
Count me in. -- Christopher Armstrong International Man of Twistery http://radix.twistedmatrix.com/ http://twistedmatrix.com/ http://canonical.com/
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:08:25 -0400, Christopher Armstrong <radix@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:07 AM, <glyph@divmod.com> wrote:
I, for one, will definitely be there, of course. If you will be too, please reply to this message. I have specifically avoided mentioning any probable attendees by name so that you will all chime in and hopefully attract some more people :).
Count me in.
Me too. Jean-Paul
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:07 PM, <glyph@divmod.com> wrote:
We're planning on having a sprint at the Divmod and Synthesis Studios offices in Cambridge, MA on April 20.
While I know that some people who might be there will probably be working on twisted.conch, twisted.words, and twisted.web, the main purpose of these sprints is to help facilitate the expansion of the Twisted community.
As usual, I'd like to work on Trial and maybe Conch. Advance planning would be good so we can get those pesky design / I-have-fundamental-issues-with-your-implementation discussions out of the way. Well, as much as is possible.
Also, if you want to host a parallel sprint in a different city, it would be great to keep the momentum rolling all the way across the globe; we could reduce review latency by having reviews taking place at the sprints as well, after the earlier ones have ended. Sydney and the Bay Area, I'm talking to you. The sun never sets on the Twisted empire, after all. And that is why we must destroy it, so we can all get some rest.
A parallel sprint is unlikely, it'll be a slightly-skewed sprint at best, given the timezones: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=20&month=4&year=2008&p1=43&p2=240 I could be persuaded to host / attend a Sydney sprint on April 19th. Any chance of the foundation buying *us* pizza? jml
participants (13)
-
alex clemesha -
Brian Granger -
Christopher Armstrong -
glyph＠divmod.com -
James Y Knight -
Jean-Paul Calderone -
Jonathan Lange -
Paul Swartz -
Phil Christensen -
Phil Mayers -
Stephen Waterbury -
Valentino Volonghi -
Werner Thie