[Twisted-Python] Twisted XMPP Roadmap
Hey all, I wanted to take a quick moment to share some stuff with the general email audience that is interested in XMPP/Jabber in Twisted. First off, some folks don't realize that there is a dedicated Twisted-Jabber email list for discussing XMPP/Jabber topics. This list is managed by Twisted's XMPP guru, Ralph Meijer. You can subscribe and check out the archives here: https://mailman.ik.nu/mailman/listinfo/twisted-jabber Secondly, we've been having some interesting discussions with Twisted sponsors lately about deep and abiding interests in Twisted XMPP: many sponsors want us to spend time creating docs and tutorials, improving support and adding new features. This interest was spearheaded by Jack Moffitt of Chesspark and given additional momentum by Dhris DiBona of Google. Furthermore, we've received vocal support for XMPP improvements from Hydra Labs, Lucasfilm, Security Metrics, and individual sponsors. Thirdly, today on #twisted, we had an intense and very productive discussion about XMPP in general, about it's current support in Twisted, and then a provisional roadmap for future developments. It was an excellent experience for all, and one that can be relived by everyone, thanks to IRC logs :-) A new ticket was created to address the next step that will to be taken, and that ticket is here: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/3407 In that ticket, I linked to the notes and IRC log of our chat: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/XMPPServerArchitecture http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/XMPPIRCTranscript20080903 There's lots to do and we're all quite excited about both the immediate and long-term benefits to be had by Twisted users, community members, and the project itself with regard to XMPP and messaging development efforts. Thanks, d
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Duncan McGreggor <duncan.mcgreggor@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that it's got such little traffic, maybe it's proven to not be a good idea to have that mailing list separate from this one. It hides the conversation that goes on there from a larger audience, and anyone who reads the archives is going to think that the project is, if not dead, not very active. -- Christopher Armstrong International Man of Twistery http://radix.twistedmatrix.com/ http://twistedmatrix.com/ http://canonical.com/
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:32:10 -0400, Christopher Armstrong <radix@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
+1 for Twisted XMPP discussions on Twisted Python, at least until the XMPP code in Twisted is so great and popular that we start getting the kind of repetitive, uninteresting posts that led to the twisted-web split. Jean-Paul
This is really great. We've been using Twisted-XMPP that acts as a Mobile IM server (now taking 5k simultaneous connections). I'd be glad to share some of the experiences and help out with with the development. On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Jean-Paul Calderone <exarkun@divmod.com>wrote:
On 2008-09-04 09:55, Phil Mayers wrote:
Hey Phil, that sounds nice. Have you looked at all at the stuff that currently resides in Wokkel (and, as part of this grand effort will eventually end up in Twisted Words)? The pubsub protocol there is the stuff I've been working on most. I mostly focused on the component side (for implementing Idavoll), but there is good client support in there as well. You can also drop me a line via Jabber. That said, yeah the list might have been somewhat quiet, partly because I have been bad at communicating what I've been up to recently. It does have about 50 people subscribing to it, and I am so far not convinced that all of them would want to be dragged into general Twisted discussions. ralphm
Ralph Meijer wrote:
I did look at wokkel. I must be honest, first time round I found it a bit difficult to decipher, though that might be because it took a while to realise that lots of the pieces were in fact server-side ;o) Once I'd gone to the effort of re-inventing the wheel however, a 2nd look back at wokkel made a lot more sense, and I'll certainly use it instead of the code I wrote. The actual project was for ESB-like use, though that's now been put on hold (frankly I think XMPP pubsub might be a little new for that, and will probably look at ActiveMQ. It didn't help that ejabberd's collections are "funny"). What I *did* end up doing was start on a basic Nevow/Athena XMPP client with basic roster/message functions and also pubsub support. That might make a nice example app. The notion of an all-twisted XMPP server is intriguing, especially if some integration with http://pypi.python.org/pypi/txLoadBalancer were to appear!
Thinking about it, you're probably right - the list has been quiet because not much has been going on, but that doesn't mean it need remain quiet if things are now going to be moving.
On 08:57 am, twisted@ralphm.ik.nu wrote:
I agree with Chris and JP here: I certainly plan to discuss XMPP issues here on the main Twisted mailing list. I _want_ to "drag" these folks into general Twisted discussions - and with over 1000 people on this list already, with a hugely divergent array of interests in Twisted, somehow I am guessing those 50 won't need to be dragged too hard :). There is still a lot to be decided as to how Twisted's XMPP code will integrate with the rest of Twisted: what is the (protocol-agnostic) common domain model for chat? How should different XMPP components and modules use twisted.cred? I think that these core integration mechanisms are a huge part of what makes Twisted great. These questions need to be answered by people who know Twisted's abstractions as well as those who know XMPP's. What to do with the twisted-jabber mailing list is certainly up to you, and perhaps current discussion of wokkel, palaver, and idavoll does not belong here; but certainly development of twisted.words should be discussed in as general a forum as possible.
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Duncan McGreggor <duncan.mcgreggor@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that it's got such little traffic, maybe it's proven to not be a good idea to have that mailing list separate from this one. It hides the conversation that goes on there from a larger audience, and anyone who reads the archives is going to think that the project is, if not dead, not very active. -- Christopher Armstrong International Man of Twistery http://radix.twistedmatrix.com/ http://twistedmatrix.com/ http://canonical.com/
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:32:10 -0400, Christopher Armstrong <radix@twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
+1 for Twisted XMPP discussions on Twisted Python, at least until the XMPP code in Twisted is so great and popular that we start getting the kind of repetitive, uninteresting posts that led to the twisted-web split. Jean-Paul
This is really great. We've been using Twisted-XMPP that acts as a Mobile IM server (now taking 5k simultaneous connections). I'd be glad to share some of the experiences and help out with with the development. On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Jean-Paul Calderone <exarkun@divmod.com>wrote:
On 2008-09-04 09:55, Phil Mayers wrote:
Hey Phil, that sounds nice. Have you looked at all at the stuff that currently resides in Wokkel (and, as part of this grand effort will eventually end up in Twisted Words)? The pubsub protocol there is the stuff I've been working on most. I mostly focused on the component side (for implementing Idavoll), but there is good client support in there as well. You can also drop me a line via Jabber. That said, yeah the list might have been somewhat quiet, partly because I have been bad at communicating what I've been up to recently. It does have about 50 people subscribing to it, and I am so far not convinced that all of them would want to be dragged into general Twisted discussions. ralphm
Ralph Meijer wrote:
I did look at wokkel. I must be honest, first time round I found it a bit difficult to decipher, though that might be because it took a while to realise that lots of the pieces were in fact server-side ;o) Once I'd gone to the effort of re-inventing the wheel however, a 2nd look back at wokkel made a lot more sense, and I'll certainly use it instead of the code I wrote. The actual project was for ESB-like use, though that's now been put on hold (frankly I think XMPP pubsub might be a little new for that, and will probably look at ActiveMQ. It didn't help that ejabberd's collections are "funny"). What I *did* end up doing was start on a basic Nevow/Athena XMPP client with basic roster/message functions and also pubsub support. That might make a nice example app. The notion of an all-twisted XMPP server is intriguing, especially if some integration with http://pypi.python.org/pypi/txLoadBalancer were to appear!
Thinking about it, you're probably right - the list has been quiet because not much has been going on, but that doesn't mean it need remain quiet if things are now going to be moving.
On 08:57 am, twisted@ralphm.ik.nu wrote:
I agree with Chris and JP here: I certainly plan to discuss XMPP issues here on the main Twisted mailing list. I _want_ to "drag" these folks into general Twisted discussions - and with over 1000 people on this list already, with a hugely divergent array of interests in Twisted, somehow I am guessing those 50 won't need to be dragged too hard :). There is still a lot to be decided as to how Twisted's XMPP code will integrate with the rest of Twisted: what is the (protocol-agnostic) common domain model for chat? How should different XMPP components and modules use twisted.cred? I think that these core integration mechanisms are a huge part of what makes Twisted great. These questions need to be answered by people who know Twisted's abstractions as well as those who know XMPP's. What to do with the twisted-jabber mailing list is certainly up to you, and perhaps current discussion of wokkel, palaver, and idavoll does not belong here; but certainly development of twisted.words should be discussed in as general a forum as possible.
participants (7)
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Alvin Delagon -
Christopher Armstrong -
Duncan McGreggor -
glyph＠divmod.com -
Jean-Paul Calderone -
Phil Mayers -
Ralph Meijer