Invitation: Bay Area Typing Meetup Tue 3/12 1-5pm Google Sunnyvale
** PLEASE RSVP TO REBECCA CHEN (CC'ED TO THIS MESSAGE) ** We are having another Python Typing Meetup in the Bay Area. Everyone interested in static type checking for Python is invited, but we need to have an approximate guest list by 3/9 so our gracious host can make sure there's room for all. Anyone who would like to make a short presentation please send me your topic and the amount of time you expect to need, so I can create a draft agenda (this worked pretty well last time). Location: Google's TC3 building: https://goo.gl/maps/sxgWnUgC7jL2 Date/time: Tue March 12, 2019, from 1-5 pm Please arrive early to allow everybody to check in with Google's front desk -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
Hi all, Please RSVP for the typing meetup by tomorrow. This is the list of attendees I have so far: Ethan Smith Jelle Zijlstra *Dropbox* Guido van Rossum Ivan Levkivskiy Jukka Lehtosalo Michael Lee Michael Sullivan *Google* Gregory P. Smith Martin DeMello Naomi Seyfer Rebecca Chen Teddy Sudol *Facebook* Dominik Gabi Eric Lippert Jia Chen Mark Mendoza Mark Vismonte Matt D’Souza Pieter Hooimeijer Shannon Zhu Sinan Cepel Xing Qiao Liu Best, Rebecca On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 12:38 PM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
** PLEASE RSVP TO REBECCA CHEN (CC'ED TO THIS MESSAGE) **
We are having another Python Typing Meetup in the Bay Area. Everyone interested in static type checking for Python is invited, but we need to have an approximate guest list by 3/9 so our gracious host can make sure there's room for all.
Anyone who would like to make a short presentation please send me your topic and the amount of time you expect to need, so I can create a draft agenda (this worked pretty well last time).
Location: Google's TC3 building: https://goo.gl/maps/sxgWnUgC7jL2 Date/time: Tue March 12, 2019, from 1-5 pm Please arrive early to allow everybody to check in with Google's front desk
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
Here's a proposed agenda. --Guido Agenda 3/12/19 Typing Meetup Assuming breaks every hour. 1pm Welcome (10 min) - Introductions, getting settled Typeshed (30 min) - Jukka Lehtosalo: Recent stubgen improvements. Stub coverage (or the lack of it) of popular third party libraries. - Rebecca Chen: Should type stubs reflect a module's implementation or its public interface? This seems to come up a lot in typeshed (when undocumented members are appropriate to include, what to do when a function returns an instance of a private class, etc.). - Martin DeMello: Exploring the idea of typing-only strict and non-strict versions of collections, as a way to address a common feature request in pytype to be able to specify when adding elements of a different type to a container is allowed. The future of typed_ast (10 min) - Guido van Rossum: Proposal to gradually switch over to the stdlib ast module, which in Python 3.8 gained support for parsing type comments and parsing earlier Python versions (big advantage: we could start supporting assignment expressions in mypy without waiting for a new typed_ast backport) 2pm Pyre (25 min) - Dominic Gabi and/or someone else from Facebook: - Status and roadmap - Abstract interpretation - Applications, e.g. de-obfuscation of malware? Variadic Generics (25 min) - Ivan Levkivskyi 3pm NumPy (25 min) - Ivan Levkivskyi Misc type system topics (25 min) - Pick off topics from hour 4 until we feel like a break (or we can break early) 4pm Misc type system topics (50 min) - These were all suggested by Dominic. See also PEP 585 <https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0585/> (very early draft by Łukasz) - Is it possible to disentangle Final and Literal types? - Typing **kwargs — how do we transition to TypedDict? (And what features might the latter be lacking for this purpose?) - Explicit type aliases? (PEP 585 proposes X: Alias[SomeType], also there is mypy_extensions.FlexibleAlias) - Syntax to support typing: can we make types more user-friendly? E.g. first-class support for generics? Maybe decouple types from the runtime? (PEP 585 proposes directly using the abstract collection classes in collections.abc rather than similarly-named ones in typing, and also supporting dict[str, int] etc.) -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
Am 12.03.19 um 18:18 schrieb Guido van Rossum:
* Rebecca Chen: Should type stubs reflect a module's implementation or its public interface? This seems to come up a lot in typeshed(whenundocumented members are appropriate to include, what to do when a function returns an instance of a private class, etc.).
As this is of special interest to me, I'd be glad if someone could summarize the discussion after the event. My (current) thoughts about this for your consideration: * Stubs should document the public API, which consists of: o Everything that is documented, plus o everything that is not marked as private (i.e. not underscored). * The maintainers (third party) or experts (stdlib) should have the final say. * Possibly we typeshed maintainers could push more for documenting undocumented, but public members, especially in the standard library. - Sebastian
Some notes on the discussion on this topic: - Jukka presented on stubgen. Most (60%) of major third-party packages he checked don't have stubs yet. What can we do to get more stubs available? - Some discussion on how stubgen works. It's much easier to run stubgen than dynamic tools like pyannotate. - Many package owners who were approached about adding stubs were worried about keeping them up to date. - Different views on how much should in the stubs. Are they for maintainers, for consumers, for typecheckers? - Is it the job of a type checker to point out that I'm using an undocumented function? Guido thinks no. - Many people lean towards being as inclusive as possible: even if the method is supposedly private, it's helpful for the type checker to tell me if I'm using it with the wrong arguments. - Jelle: Maybe the policy should be to add everything that is public by default, and add private things for which there's evidence that people need them (e.g., when people open a typeshed issue). People generally seem to agree with this. El mar., 12 mar. 2019 a las 12:58, Sebastian Rittau (<srittau@rittau.biz>) escribió:
Am 12.03.19 um 18:18 schrieb Guido van Rossum:
- Rebecca Chen: Should type stubs reflect a module's implementation or its public interface? This seems to come up a lot in typeshed(when undocumented members are appropriate to include, what to do when a function returns an instance of a private class, etc.).
As this is of special interest to me, I'd be glad if someone could summarize the discussion after the event. My (current) thoughts about this for your consideration:
- Stubs should document the public API, which consists of: - Everything that is documented, plus - everything that is not marked as private (i.e. not underscored). - The maintainers (third party) or experts (stdlib) should have the final say. - Possibly we typeshed maintainers could push more for documenting undocumented, but public members, especially in the standard library.
- Sebastian
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Also, here are Ivan's slides for Variadic Generics and NumPy: https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Type-system-improvements--AZLqIRRyLF5wU14B5leS... -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
And here are Dominik's slides about abstract execution: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwwBadvrXbuVNWgxMHEtMlQ3ZmdfVV9YLUlSekpWS2F... On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 10:50 AM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
Also, here are Ivan's slides for Variadic Generics and NumPy:
https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Type-system-improvements--AZLqIRRyLF5wU14B5leS...
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
Here are my slides about available stubs for 3rd party libraries and stubgen: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yvd4tuadt8tcz8y/typing_meetup_not_enough_stubs.pdf... On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 3:00 PM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
And here are Dominik's slides about abstract execution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwwBadvrXbuVNWgxMHEtMlQ3ZmdfVV9YLUlSekpWS2F...
On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 10:50 AM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
Also, here are Ivan's slides for Variadic Generics and NumPy:
https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Type-system-improvements--AZLqIRRyLF5wU14B5leS...
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) _______________________________________________ Typing-sig mailing list -- typing-sig@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to typing-sig-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/typing-sig.python.org/
Thanks everybody for sharing your slides and notes! I wish I had attended the meetup. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the typing summit at PyCon. On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 at 02:59 Jukka Lehtosalo <jlehtosalo@gmail.com> wrote:
Here are my slides about available stubs for 3rd party libraries and stubgen:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yvd4tuadt8tcz8y/typing_meetup_not_enough_stubs.pdf...
On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 3:00 PM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
And here are Dominik's slides about abstract execution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwwBadvrXbuVNWgxMHEtMlQ3ZmdfVV9YLUlSekpWS2F...
On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 10:50 AM Guido van Rossum <guido@python.org> wrote:
Also, here are Ivan's slides for Variadic Generics and NumPy:
https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Type-system-improvements--AZLqIRRyLF5wU14B5leS...
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
-- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) _______________________________________________ Typing-sig mailing list -- typing-sig@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to typing-sig-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/typing-sig.python.org/
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-- Andrey Vlasovskikh Web: http://pirx.ru/
účastníci (6)
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Andrey Vlasovskikh -
Guido van Rossum -
Jelle Zijlstra -
Jukka Lehtosalo -
Rebecca Chen -
Sebastian Rittau