From jeff at taupro.com Tue Dec 5 22:46:51 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:46:51 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] List of Potential Writing Topics Message-ID: <4575E8CB.5020507@taupro.com> I've prepared a list of advocacy writing needs for those who might have the time and interest in contributing. You can find it at: http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyWritingTasks I've provided an 'assigned-to' field so people can reserve topics as they are working on them -- just edit the wiki page. Any writing will be fully credited to you, and displayed on the website. Jeff Python Advocacy Coordinator From gslindstrom at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 16:59:04 2006 From: gslindstrom at gmail.com (Greg Lindstrom) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:59:04 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] Wiki Questions Message-ID: Hello- I'm willing to take on the database paper. At Novasys Health (Little Rock, Arkansas) we use Python to connect to Postgres, SQL Server, Oracle, HP Image, and other databases. It is ridiculously simple to do. I've created a sub-page for my material. Is there a template that we can/should use for the pages? If not, is there a style guide to use, or do I just roll my own? --greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20061206/ea981ce1/attachment.html From bugracakir at gmail.com Thu Dec 7 10:52:17 2006 From: bugracakir at gmail.com (Bugra Cakir) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:52:17 +0200 Subject: [python-advocacy] Wiki topics Message-ID: <5a00f6240612070152y582d1e92oedeebb2a6b5f59a7@mail.gmail.com> Hi my name is Bugra Cakir. I have worked with Python visualization for my thesis and have a great detail of experience on graph visualization especially scientific graphs. matplotlib, scipy. So i want to participate in the title. * Python: Data Visualization and Graphing Thanks. * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20061207/ef45b416/attachment.htm From jeff at taupro.com Thu Dec 7 16:13:35 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 09:13:35 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] A Call to Arms for Python Advocacy Message-ID: <45782F9F.4020506@taupro.com> Some small parts of this information went out yesterday but I've expanded it and wanted to let you know. As the Python Advocacy Coordinator, I've put up some wiki pages on the Python website for which I'm soliciting ideas, writing and graphics. Some of the material exists scattered about and just needs locating and organizing. http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy First there is a need for whitepapers and flyers - I've put up a list of suggested topics w/notes at: http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyWritingTasks And there are fields for signing up for specific documents. We also have a page of possible magazine articles if that's more your style: http://wiki.python.org/moin/ArticleIdeas. These works are to be formed into advocacy kits for various audiences. So far we have the following ideas for kits: - College Student's Python Advocacy Kit - IT Department Python Advocacy Kit - University Educator's Python Advocacy Kit - K-12 Educator's Python Advocacy Kit - Research Lab Python Advocacy Kit The table of contents for the various kits can be found at: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy#AdvocacyKits Did we miss your kit? And what would you include in any of these? Next, we are seeking reusable/retargetable teaching materials, such as those under a Creative Commons license. We need slide presentations and class handouts. Now I know there are a great many slide presentations on the web about Python. I can google them all but we're not looking for just any presentation, we're looking for the best of field. You can find the collection point at: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy#TeachingMaterials Last, perhaps you can dash off an idea or two for promotional merchandise. This could be the usuals like shirts but also posters, bumper stickers and buttons. What would you like to have? And with what graphics or slogans? We can reuse some of the slogans from the PyCon Slogan Contest, but are there others? Our collection point for promo item ideas is at: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy/WearablesGadgets All materials will be credited to the authors to the extent possible by the delivery media. Make your mark. Jeff Rush Python Advocacy Coordinator From roy at panix.com Thu Dec 7 17:12:55 2006 From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:12:55 -0500 Subject: [python-advocacy] Nav tool on the home page. Message-ID: I went to http://advocacy.python.org/ and played with the little drop- down nav tool. I selected "I am a programer seeking information on how Python compares to C++". The search results page listed 9 documents, of which "Comparing C++ to Python" was number 7! I'm not sure what kind of search engine is driving this, but I don't think it's working very well. -- roy at panix.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20061207/6edb8b83/attachment.html From jeff at taupro.com Wed Dec 13 18:34:03 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:34:03 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] A Call to Arms for Python Advocacy In-Reply-To: <94bdd2610612070752h615c1232x66c04e4abfba066b@mail.gmail.com> References: <45782F4D.5060400@taupro.com> <94bdd2610612070752h615c1232x66c04e4abfba066b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4580398B.7090801@taupro.com> Tarek Ziad? wrote: > > On 12/7/06, *Jeff Rush* > wrote: > > These works are to be formed into advocacy kits for various > audiences. So far we have the following ideas for kits: > [snip] > > perhaps a local python user group advocacy kit ? a PSF kit that would > help LUGs to spread the good word, or some kind of support for LUGs > creation Alright, I see you've added it to the list and I've filled out the table of contents for a kit for general user group advocacy -- I'm unsure whether we want a generic one or just materials that can be combined to create kits focused on various types of user groups: campus, within a large company, community, etc. > also, I think we could have a european store for shirts , > like the caffepress one, to lower the prices for european people and the > deliver time. because in europe most Python developers won't pay 30$ for > a simple shirt, that comes 3 weeks later I've added your suggestion to the top of the advocacy page, http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy but we need european input on possible online stores and which ones would serve them best. I'm copying this to the advocacy list so others can provide input on these ideas. Thanks Tarek for taking the time to get involved. -Jeff From jeff at taupro.com Wed Dec 13 20:08:17 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:08:17 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] Advocacy Materials License and Web Frameworks Whitepaper Message-ID: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> "Jeff, shouldn't we seek fairly solid redistribution guarantees in the licences recommended? CC licences are quite incompatible with various operating system distributions, yet things like Dive Into Python have been successfully bundled with distributions before now. Isn't that a desirable thing?" -- Paul, it definitely is a desirable thing and while I follow software licenses, apparently I'm not current on the various licensing issues for documentation. Researching a bit, I see some good explanation of the various documentation licenses at: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#TOC2FreeDocumentationLicenses I've changed the text on wiki.python.org to link to this page, and also recommend the GNU Free Documentation License. If anyone has strong opinions on such licenses, please speak up. BTW Paul, I found your notes collection on http://wiki.python.org/moin/MarketingPython which has some very good reading. I've linked to it from the Advocacy page and will be applying some of the ideas and perhaps reusing some of the material. And I see at http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming a good grasp of how to organize the huge topic of Python and web programming. Some may notice that I didn't list any whitepapers on web frameworks -- that is because I wasn't sure how to possibly organize such a huge topic. But it is one that needs attention - that when newcomers to the Python community ask what is the best web framework, we need not one answer but rather something that surveys the alternatives, relates them to requirements and provides a set of links for follow-up. I see at http://www.boddie.org.uk/python/web_frameworks.html that you're making an attempt to address this need. Is that work under an open license and as it develops could we get it into easily distributable whitepaper as well as a webpage? -Jeff From jeff at taupro.com Wed Dec 13 20:09:40 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:09:40 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] A Call to Arms - Advocating Python in Education In-Reply-To: <45785DEF.9060803@kurtz-fernhout.com> References: <45783904.8030906@taupro.com> <45785DEF.9060803@kurtz-fernhout.com> Message-ID: <45804FF4.6010707@taupro.com> Paul D. Fernhout wrote: > Don't forget unschoolers and home schoolers. :-) > http://www.unschooling.com/ > http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/ > Plus free schoolers and other alternative schoolers: > http://www.educationrevolution.org/ > > The needs here are often very different than conventional compulsory K-12 > education -- they are generally more open ended and free form. > > Such students number about two million strong in the USA and growing, and > include many parents and kids with free time to contribute as part of an > educational experience (including potentially to free software development). > > So I'd suggest considering having an Unschooling / Home Schooling Advocacy > Kit, too. :-) Paul, I've added a kit table of contents at http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy/HomeSchoolEducatorKit but I lack any experience with home schooling and will have to rely on others to suggest how the content would differ. Hopefully the individual items that make it up will mostly be in-common with K-12, with just some extra materials included. -Jeff From jeff at taupro.com Wed Dec 13 20:28:03 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:28:03 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Advocacy - Side-by-Side Comparison of Algorithms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45805443.40202@taupro.com> Taro wrote: > > PLEAC -- pleac.sourceforge.net -- is a > multi-language implementation of the code in the Perl Cookbook > v1. The Python section is currently the healthiest at over 85% (Perl's > is of course at 100%), but there's still an annoying 14+% > left to complete. In addition, with the release of > 2.5 there's probably nicer ways of doing some of the existing recipes, > plus some of the recipes haven't been updated for 2.4. The 14% > remaining is at the more onerous/difficult/obscure/platform-specific end > of the spectrum - it's mostly high-hanging fruit - but it would be good > if it were completed. > > Anyway - could you please add it as a project to the Advocacy pages, on > the theory that sometimes showing them the code works [I was surprised > at just how many of the recipes were much nicer in Python than Perl, > incidently] Taro, thanks for bringing this to my attention. It will be a useful source of side-by-side source comparisons for the advocacy site. I should be able to mechanically parse and integrate the format with a bit of code. I've added to the suggestions section of the advocacy site a call for volunteers to finish up the remaining portion: "Help complete the remaining 15% of Python-equivalent recipes (and review the existing 85% for being current with Python 2.5) of the [WWW] Programming Language Examples Alike Cookbook, a side-by-side comparison of algorithms in different programming languages based on the Perl Cookbook." -Jeff From jeff at taupro.com Wed Dec 13 18:49:54 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:49:54 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] A Call to Arms for Python Advocacy In-Reply-To: <1090e4100612070854p78207946g4bd77acb93756305@mail.gmail.com> References: <45782F9F.4020506@taupro.com> <1090e4100612070854p78207946g4bd77acb93756305@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45803D42.7010102@taupro.com> Navtej Singh wrote: > > I guess you can also include extending python and python for special > projects in advocacy project. > > 1. Extending Python, > Though many solutions exist like SWIG,Python2C etc etc. However looks > like Pyrex is best suited for the job. People can wrap their favourite c > based compiled libraries using pyrex and then access these in python. > This will help the python foundation to have a very strong library base. A good idea -- I've added a call for a whitepaper "Linking Python with your Code" to http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyWritingTasks: "One of the interesting traits of Python is that you can combine it with code in other languages, using it as a glue language. Survey the various solutions for combining code, such as SWIG, SIP, Python2C, Pyrex and provide the reader some guidance on the tradeoffs and how to choose." > 2. Special purpose Python Projects > Like stackless python, pygame etc etc We've got a paper on the list for gaming. Rather than write papers on libraries per se, such as stackless or pygame, I think we should focus on the 'benefit' or 'capability' of some aspect of Python, and then support it with various libraries, bringing them to the attention of the reader. Certainly stackless and pygame are key pieces of that. Thanks for taking the time to send your suggestions. -Jeff From jeff at taupro.com Wed Dec 13 22:18:14 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:18:14 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] Wiki Questions Message-ID: <45806E16.5030302@taupro.com> Greg Lindstrom said: > I'm willing to take on the database paper. At Novasys Health (Little > Rock, Arkansas) we use Python to connect to Postgres, SQL Server, > Oracle, HP Image, and other databases. It is ridiculously simple > to do. Thanks, you sound like the right person with that breadth of database engines. I see you've put your name on it. > I've created a sub-page for my material. Is there a template that > we can/should use for the pages? If not, is there a style guide > to use, or do I just roll my own? No, at the moment I don't have a template or style guide for whitepapers. I'm open to suggestions if you have a good one, or if anyone is aware of a good example on the web. I saw your sub-page and have been peeking in. I presume this is where you'll work up an outline before writing the paper itself - so others can provide input? One thing to cover is query optimization -- I get a lot of old C++ programmers, typically using IBM DB2, who insist that SQL queries in compiled languages are inherently faster than those in interpreted languages. Their reasoning is that an SQL preprocessor can 'PREP' the query. But as I understand it, if you use the DB-API correctly and use SQL instead of parameter substitution, the engine will see the same query with different args and reuse any cached query preparation. Something to mention... -Jeff From jeff at taupro.com Wed Dec 13 22:30:38 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:30:38 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] Wiki topics Message-ID: <458070FE.4020606@taupro.com> > Hi my name is Bugra Cakir. I have worked with Python visualization > for my thesis and have a great detail of experience on graph > visualization especially scientific graphs. matplotlib, scipy. > > So i want to participate in the title. > * Python: Data Visualization and Graphing Hi Bugra. Sounds like you cover all the bases -- I've marked the document assigned to you on the wiki page. I've also linked that topic to an empty wiki page so you can work up an outline that others can see and contribute to: http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyWritingTasks/DataVisualizationGraphing If you have questions on focus or format, let me know. -Jeff From sdeibel at wingware.com Thu Dec 14 00:59:33 2006 From: sdeibel at wingware.com (sdeibel) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:59:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [python-advocacy] Advocacy Materials License and Web Frameworks Whitepaper In-Reply-To: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> References: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Jeff Rush wrote: > Researching a bit, I see some good explanation of the various documentation > licenses at: > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#TOC2FreeDocumentationLicenses > > I've changed the text on wiki.python.org to link to this page, and also > recommend the GNU Free Documentation License. If anyone has strong opinions > on such licenses, please speak up. What about encouraging the FreeBSD Documentation License? The page above says it's non-copyleft but compatible w/ the GFDL. This seems to match the Python license philosophy, which is also non-copyleft but (after various painful contortions before my involvement w/ the PSF started) compatible w/ the GPL. Just a thought... I don't know much about documentation licenses. - Stephan From ziade.tarek at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 10:48:58 2006 From: ziade.tarek at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:48:58 +0100 Subject: [python-advocacy] A Call to Arms for Python Advocacy In-Reply-To: <4580398B.7090801@taupro.com> References: <45782F4D.5060400@taupro.com> <94bdd2610612070752h615c1232x66c04e4abfba066b@mail.gmail.com> <4580398B.7090801@taupro.com> Message-ID: <94bdd2610612140148v34b17affoa86a7adc7187f5e5@mail.gmail.com> On 12/13/06, Jeff Rush wrote: > > Tarek Ziad? wrote: > > > > On 12/7/06, *Jeff Rush* > > wrote: > > > > These works are to be formed into advocacy kits for various > > audiences. So far we have the following ideas for kits: > > [snip] > > > > perhaps a local python user group advocacy kit ? a PSF kit that would > > help LUGs to spread the good word, or some kind of support for LUGs > > creation > > Alright, I see you've added it to the list and I've filled out the table > of > contents for a kit for general user group advocacy -- I'm unsure whether > we > want a generic one or just materials that can be combined to create kits > focused on various types of user groups: campus, within a large company, > community, etc. When we started our LUG here, we had a lot of thaughts on how to efficiently promote Python and attract people to our meetings. Having a page that gathers good tips from experienced guys that had done this for years would be valuable imho. They are many topics that can be LUG-oriented as well: - How to do/organize a sprint - How to synchronize the LUG work (like doc writing) with PSF needs - ... > also, I think we could have a european store for shirts , > > like the caffepress one, to lower the prices for european people and the > > deliver time. because in europe most Python developers won't pay 30$ for > > a simple shirt, that comes 3 weeks later > > I've added your suggestion to the top of the advocacy page, > http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy but we need european input on > possible > online stores and which ones would serve them best. Yes, I have found and proposed http://www.comboutique.com/ some times ago. Didn't find any other yet. Anyways, I volunteer to help out on this topic if you need someone to set it up. Tarek I'm copying this to the advocacy list so others can provide input on these > ideas. Thanks Tarek for taking the time to get involved. -Jeff > > -- Tarek Ziad? | Association AfPy | www.afpy.org Blog FR | http://programmation-python.org Blog EN | http://tarekziade.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20061214/d9e6f7c1/attachment-0001.html From sdeibel at wingware.com Thu Dec 14 19:01:51 2006 From: sdeibel at wingware.com (sdeibel) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:01:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [python-advocacy] Advocacy Materials License and Web Frameworks Whitepaper In-Reply-To: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> References: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Jeff Rush wrote: > Paul, it definitely is a desirable thing and while I follow software licenses, > apparently I'm not current on the various licensing issues for documentation. > > Researching a bit, I see some good explanation of the various documentation > licenses at: > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#TOC2FreeDocumentationLicenses > > I've changed the text on wiki.python.org to link to this page, and also > recommend the GNU Free Documentation License. If anyone has strong opinions > on such licenses, please speak up. Some more info on this. I asked whether any of the PSF directors care about the license and Andrew Kuchling pointed me to: http://people.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml It claims the GFDL "it is fundamentally incompatible with any free software license whatsoever" because its restrictions make it impossible to "borrow text from a GFDL's manual and incorporate it in any free software program whatsoever." The key issues are overly broad language that ends up prohibiting common things like encrypting docs in your own disk, distributing something like a postscript or PDF file, or making excerpts when parts of a document are declared to be "invariant" by the author. Apparently the DFSG FAQ recommends using the same license as the software for its documentation, which might argue for PSFv2. - Stephan From amk at amk.ca Thu Dec 14 19:24:46 2006 From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:24:46 -0500 Subject: [python-advocacy] Conference white paper Message-ID: <20061214182446.GA17067@localhost.localdomain> I've volunteered to write the "How to Start and Run a Successful Python Conference" whitepaper, and need to clarify the audience for it. What sort of events should the paper be discussing (in terms of length and # of attendees)? A 10-person sprint? A 30-person half-day series of talks? A 100-person weekend event? A PyCon-sized event? I doubt many people will set out to run PyCon-sized events, and there's a lot of ground to cover for something of that scale. A smaller event seems more likely, something like a day-long one-track series of talks, perhaps accompanied by a sprint the next day. Does that seem reasonable? Should I assume that events will be run with very little funding? --amk From aahz at pythoncraft.com Thu Dec 14 20:00:53 2006 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:00:53 -0800 Subject: [python-advocacy] Conference white paper In-Reply-To: <20061214182446.GA17067@localhost.localdomain> References: <20061214182446.GA17067@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20061214190053.GA8451@panix.com> On Thu, Dec 14, 2006, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > I've volunteered to write the "How to Start and Run a Successful > Python Conference" whitepaper, and need to clarify the audience for it. > > What sort of events should the paper be discussing (in terms of length > and # of attendees)? A 10-person sprint? A 30-person half-day series > of talks? A 100-person weekend event? A PyCon-sized event? The issues that most need addressing in a paper of this sort IMO have to do with the logistics of finding (and possibly paying for) space and managing time over multiple days. I think I would also s/Conference/Event/ > I doubt many people will set out to run PyCon-sized events, and > there's a lot of ground to cover for something of that scale. A > smaller event seems more likely, something like a day-long one-track > series of talks, perhaps accompanied by a sprint the next day. Does > that seem reasonable? > > Should I assume that events will be run with very little funding? What I would assume is that the event will be run mostly on volunteer labor -- I would expect that funding is widely variable. For example, the Google and Need For Speed sprints have IMO a lot in common with PyCon despite lots of money and even some professional help organizing. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Member of the Groucho Marx Fan Club From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Fri Dec 15 05:40:33 2006 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:10:33 +0530 Subject: [python-advocacy] Advocacy Materials License and Web Frameworks Whitepaper In-Reply-To: References: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> Message-ID: <3171e4820612142040m646c67eawddd752fa689c306a@mail.gmail.com> On 12/14/06, sdeibel wrote: > Apparently the DFSG FAQ recommends using the same license as the > software for its documentation, which might argue for PSFv2. +1 for using PSFv2 for documentation. Official tutorial, reference etc. are released under this license (which is distributed with Debian,Fedora,Ubuntu etc), so it will fit for other docs also. BTW, FSF has started revising GFDL. [1] [1] http://gplv3.fsf.org/doclic-dd1-guide.html Regards, Baiju M From sdeibel at wingware.com Fri Dec 15 17:49:49 2006 From: sdeibel at wingware.com (sdeibel) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:49:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [python-advocacy] New Python Success Story Message-ID: Hi, One type of advocacy content is the Python Success Story, of which I've been building a collection over the years here: http://pythonology.org/success/ I haven't been doing much active recruiting of stories lately but they trickle in anyway. Here is the latest new one, just finished: http://pythonology.org/success&story=acqutek It has an interesting non-game use of pygame. I've not yet added this to python.org, which has a copy of the other stories. Eventually, it would be nice to automatically update the collection there using pythonology.org's "web service" for content franchising the stories to other sites. It's on my endless list of such tasks; if someone else has interest in doing it, please let me know. - Stephan From paul at boddie.org.uk Fri Dec 15 23:00:02 2006 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:00:02 +0100 Subject: [python-advocacy] Advocacy Materials License and Web Frameworks Whitepaper In-Reply-To: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> References: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> Message-ID: <200612152300.02824.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Wednesday 13 December 2006 20:08, Jeff Rush wrote: > > BTW Paul, I found your notes collection on > http://wiki.python.org/moin/MarketingPython which has some very good > reading. I've linked to it from the Advocacy page and will be applying some > of the ideas and perhaps reusing some of the material. The motivation for making that page was to encourage a more complete view of the factors that encourage people to use Python. As you seem to know very well, it's not merely a matter of pure advocacy articles fired off to the right journals to try and coax people into trying Python out, although I remember a quite successful Linux Journal special edition with a Python section (which I have a copy of, in fact). In recent times there's been a greater appreciation that quality at every level in a product makes for happy developers (or customers), which makes for persuasive developers with more credibility than some "opinion maker" saying that something is cool or hot or whatever. > And I see at http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming a good grasp of how > to organize the huge topic of Python and web programming. Some may notice > that I didn't list any whitepapers on web frameworks -- that is because I > wasn't sure how to possibly organize such a huge topic. But it is one that > needs attention - that when newcomers to the Python community ask what is > the best web framework, we need not one answer but rather something that > surveys the alternatives, relates them to requirements and provides a set > of links for follow-up. It's a big area with some kind of consolidation in progress. The challenge is to help people to make an informed choice, although one wouldn't go far wrong closing one's eyes and just pointing at one with the frameworks we have today. > I see at http://www.boddie.org.uk/python/web_frameworks.html that you're > making an attempt to address this need. Is that work under an open license > and as it develops could we get it into easily distributable whitepaper as > well as a webpage? In fact, that Web site was the origin of the WebProgramming (now WebFrameworks) page - I keep it around for reasons of politeness, although I should make the note at the top a bit more prominent, I suppose. Paul From paul at boddie.org.uk Fri Dec 15 23:23:28 2006 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:23:28 +0100 Subject: [python-advocacy] Advocacy Materials License and Web Frameworks Whitepaper In-Reply-To: References: <45804FA1.4060208@taupro.com> Message-ID: <200612152323.28744.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Thursday 14 December 2006 00:59, sdeibel wrote: > On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Jeff Rush wrote: > > Researching a bit, I see some good explanation of the various > > documentation licenses at: > > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#TOC2FreeDocumentationLice > >nses > > > > I've changed the text on wiki.python.org to link to this page, and also > > recommend the GNU Free Documentation License. If anyone has strong > > opinions on such licenses, please speak up. First of all, thanks to Jeff for bringing this up on the list. There was a contentious debate about documentation licensing on comp.lang.python a few weeks ago, although I think that the concerns were well-founded, even though the material was actually something with certain redistribution restrictions and that the publishers weren't intentionally trying to hide that fact. That's why I brought up the question about Creative Commons licensing and all its variations. > What about encouraging the FreeBSD Documentation License? The > page above says it's non-copyleft but compatible w/ the GFDL. > This seems to match the Python license philosophy, which is also > non-copyleft but (after various painful contortions before my > involvement w/ the PSF started) compatible w/ the GPL. > > Just a thought... I don't know much about documentation licenses. As Baiju M notes, the GFDL is being revised, and the SFDL may well end up being acceptable to everyone who doesn't quite get on with the current GFDL, specifically the Debian crowd. It's possible that the current GFDL might be acceptable even within Debian, but then one runs into the problem that the FSF have with Creative Commons licences: you have to be very clear which variation you've employed, and in the case of the GFDL it's probably something to do with invariant sections. If the SFDL process were finished and the licence had broad acceptance then I think I'd recommend that. But I believe it is important to maintain certain desirable properties of the documentation: * That it is redistributable without arbitrary restrictions (eg. a non-commercial use clause). * That people can conveniently modify and improve it. * That we use genuinely free formats. Copyleft properties are very desirable from an end-user perspective, I believe, and might fit in quite well with self-contained advocacy materials. And given that numerous books have already been published under various such licences, it shouldn't really be too much to ask people to make their sources available. Still, I can also imagine that one might want authors to cite Python promotional materials and not have to worry about licensing too much. Paul From jeff at taupro.com Sat Dec 16 07:22:15 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 00:22:15 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] A Call to Arms for Python Advocacy (Wearables) In-Reply-To: <94bdd2610612140148v34b17affoa86a7adc7187f5e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <45782F4D.5060400@taupro.com> <94bdd2610612070752h615c1232x66c04e4abfba066b@mail.gmail.com> <4580398B.7090801@taupro.com> <94bdd2610612140148v34b17affoa86a7adc7187f5e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45839097.3060407@taupro.com> Tarek Ziad? wrote: > > On 12/13/06, Jeff Rush: > > Tarek Ziad? wrote: > > > > On 12/7/06, Jeff Rush wrote: > > > > These works are to be formed into advocacy kits for various > > audiences. So far we have the following ideas for kits: > > [snip] > > > > perhaps a local python user group advocacy kit ? a PSF kit that > > > When we started our LUG here, we had a lot of thaughts on how to > efficiently promote Python and attract people to our meetings. > > Having a page that gathers good tips from experienced guys that had done > this for years would be valuable imho. They are many topics that can be > LUG-oriented as well: > > - How to do/organize a sprint > - How to synchronize the LUG work (like doc writing) with PSF needs > - ... Thanks Tarek. I've added a wiki page for collecting those ideas underneath the whitepaper topic at: http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyWritingTasks#StartingAPythonUserGroup > > also, I think we could have a european store for shirts , > > like the caffepress one, to lower the prices for european people > > and the deliver time. because in europe most Python developers > > won't pay 30$ for a simple shirt, that comes 3 weeks later > > I've added your suggestion to the top of the advocacy page, > http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy but we need european input on > possible > online stores and which ones would serve them best. > > Yes, I have found and proposed http://www.comboutique.com/ some times ago. > Didn't find any other yet. Anyways, I volunteer to help out on this > topic if you need someone > to set it up. I've checked them out and they look pretty good. They take care of a lot of customer issues, and their prices look a bit better than CafePress, if I understand the currency conversion rate. I've gone ahead and opened a shop, with the basic template and no products yet: http://www.comboutique.com/python I need to run this past the Python Software Foundation board before we proceed further, since it involves money and the PSF's reputation. Assuming approval, anyone want to play "Python Shopkeeper" and round up designs, decide colors and offerings, and so forth? For both Cafe Press and Comboutique - I think we'd want to offer the same products where possible. We'll also need some help changing the site from the basic template to something more 'Pythonic'. I'm not sure yet how flexible they are. -Jeff From jeff at taupro.com Sat Dec 16 11:27:42 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 04:27:42 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] A Call to Arms - Advocating Python in Science In-Reply-To: <457D1D16.7050105@itc.it> References: <45783A3A.6080201@taupro.com> <457D1D16.7050105@itc.it> Message-ID: <4583CA1E.3030406@taupro.com> Emanuele Olivetti wrote: > Thank you for your advocacy work. I'm a Python enthusiast working > in computer science area and using numpy, matplotlib etc. for my > job. What about adding some "numpy/scipy success stories?" to the > advocacy wiki? I've a little success story and if it can help > spreading Python I'd be happy to share it. Emanuele, I would be very glad to see such a story written up. We can get it onto the advocacy site as well as http://www.pythonology.org/python/success. The science modules for Python are a real secret weapon for Python that needs to have its story told. We could also use your experience regarding some of the whitepapers. We have: "Scientific Computing with Python" http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyWritingTasks#ScientificPython and "The Python Alternative to Matlab" http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyWritingTasks#ReplaceMatlabWithPython for which no one has volunteered to at least outline. Each of those has a link from their title to a workspace for jotting down ideas of what to cover. Those who lack the time/energy to write an entire paper are welcome to suggest and critique the outlines. I look forward to your success story and thanks for getting involved, -Jeff From jeff at taupro.com Sun Dec 17 08:13:45 2006 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 01:13:45 -0600 Subject: [python-advocacy] Creation of a Jabber Chat Room for Advocacy Message-ID: <4584EE29.2050405@taupro.com> It has been suggested that we create a chat room on which to hang out, in order to be more responsive to advocacy activities, therefore I've added the room "pyadvocacy at conference.jabber.org". I'm there under chat id xanalogica at gmail.com most of the time. -Jeff