From mark.ramm at gmail.com  Wed Jul  4 16:58:53 2007
From: mark.ramm at gmail.com (Mark Ramm)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:58:53 -0400
Subject: [python-advocacy] OSCON+Podcasting
Message-ID: <ec2d68db0707040758h3ee4834buee7b6a53116e9ce3@mail.gmail.com>

I've got equipment, and a couple of people liked up for interviews
about Python related stuff at OSCON for a new podcast I'll planning to
launch (on my own, nothing official about it!).

But I could use some help...   It would be great to line up a few more
people -- so if you know people who might have interesting things to
say about Python, jython, ironpython, or whatever let me know.

I'm also hoping to have a more free flowing discussion of python web
development with at least the TurboGears, Django, and Pylons project
leaders,  and I could use some help monitoring sound levels keeping
the equipment working while we talk.  Any takers?

-- 
Mark Ramm-Christensen
email: mark at compoundthinking dot com
blog: www.compoundthinking.com/blog

From jeff at taupro.com  Mon Jul  9 11:58:22 2007
From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 04:58:22 -0500
Subject: [python-advocacy] An Update Regarding Python Advocacy
Message-ID: <469206BE.5070804@taupro.com>

For those who might wonder what I do as advocacy coordinator, I've just 
updated for the month my list of accomplishments at:

   http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyAccomplishments

My short list of things to tackle next is at:

   http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonAdvocacyCoordinator

Suggestions and feedback are appreciated, as is volunteering to create 
podcasts, screencasts, artwork or whitepapers.  There is a list of writing 
ideas at:

   http://wiki.python.org/moin/AdvocacyWritingTasks

and ideas for articles at:

   http://wiki.python.org/moin/ArticleIdeas

For screencasting I'm working with Ian of ShowMeDo.com to create a collection 
of 5-minute videos targeted at those new to or unsure of Python, to make them 
aware of the strengths of the language in areas in which they might be 
interested.  We welcome contributions - they're only 5-minute talks.

And on the low burner we've got some wiki pages bubbling about how to help new 
programmers get into Python, at:

   http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy/ProgrammingForNewprogrammers

We could use any ideas that might occur to you as you read those wiki pages.

Jeff Rush
Advocacy Coordinator

From mikeyp at snaplogic.org  Tue Jul 10 20:06:23 2007
From: mikeyp at snaplogic.org (Michael Pittaro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:06:23 -0700
Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Advocacy at OSCON, July 23 - 27
Message-ID: <4693CA9F.8040802@snaplogic.org>


Just following up on Jeff's post about OSCON....

I'll be at OSCON from July 23rd through 27th, and I'm sure I can find
some time to get involved in  Python advocacy activities.   Is anyone
else interested ?

So far, I see one Python BOF organized by David Goodger -
*Python BOF*
*Date:* Wednesday, July 25
*Time:* 8:30pm - 9:30pm
*Location:* D139-140

One though is to to set up an Advocacy BOF on Monday to coordinate
activities during OSCON.    However, I'm not sure who will be arriving
that early, or whether it's better to coordinate activities sooner.

mike

-- 
mikeyp at snaplogic.org            http://www.snaplogic.org


From goodger at python.org  Tue Jul 10 20:49:49 2007
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:49:49 -0400
Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Advocacy at OSCON, July 23 - 27
In-Reply-To: <4693CA9F.8040802@snaplogic.org>
References: <4693CA9F.8040802@snaplogic.org>
Message-ID: <4335d2c40707101149i61531ad4r1f8dd46a0058f36f@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/10/07, Michael Pittaro <mikeyp at snaplogic.org> wrote:
> One though is to to set up an Advocacy BOF on Monday to coordinate
> activities during OSCON.    However, I'm not sure who will be arriving
> that early, or whether it's better to coordinate activities sooner.

I'm also arriving July 23rd.  If you set up something (probably
evening, after the tutorials), I'll be there.  It would be good to
announce it (and the Wednesday BoF) on python-list and
python-announce.  I can do a PSF blog entry.

-- 
David Goodger <http://python.net/~goodger>

From mikeyp at snaplogic.org  Wed Jul 11 00:43:03 2007
From: mikeyp at snaplogic.org (Michael Pittaro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:43:03 -0700
Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Advocacy at OSCON, July 23 - 27
In-Reply-To: <4335d2c40707101149i61531ad4r1f8dd46a0058f36f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4693CA9F.8040802@snaplogic.org>
	<4335d2c40707101149i61531ad4r1f8dd46a0058f36f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46940B77.2060702@snaplogic.org>

David Goodger wrote:
> On 7/10/07, Michael Pittaro <mikeyp at snaplogic.org> wrote:
>> One though is to to set up an Advocacy BOF on Monday to coordinate
>> activities during OSCON.    However, I'm not sure who will be arriving
>> that early, or whether it's better to coordinate activities sooner.
>
> I'm also arriving July 23rd.  If you set up something (probably
> evening, after the tutorials), I'll be there.  It would be good to
> announce it (and the Wednesday BoF) on python-list and
> python-announce.  I can do a PSF blog entry.
>
OK, we have a Python Advocacy Bof confirmed for Monday, 6:30pm to 7:30 pm.

http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2007/view/e_sess/14838


-- 
mikeyp at snaplogic.org            http://www.snaplogic.org


From sdeibel at wingware.com  Wed Jul 11 16:12:13 2007
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (Stephan Deibel)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:12:13 -0400
Subject: [python-advocacy] Potentially high profile Python project
Message-ID: <4694E53D.3030602@wingware.com>

Hi,

Just saw this Australian govt project using Zope and Python:

http://www.intergovworld.com/article/idgml-2d0d9393-b9ca-4e6b-b9b6-4de79a155d05/pg1.htm

One for the list(s) of projects using Python...

- Stephan

From grig at gheorghiu.net  Wed Jul 11 19:16:29 2007
From: grig at gheorghiu.net (Grig Gheorghiu)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:16:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [python-advocacy] Potentially high profile Python project
In-Reply-To: <4694E53D.3030602@wingware.com>
Message-ID: <415655.55137.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

--- Stephan Deibel <sdeibel at wingware.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Just saw this Australian govt project using Zope and Python:
> 
>
http://www.intergovworld.com/article/idgml-2d0d9393-b9ca-4e6b-b9b6-4de79a155d05/pg1.htm
> 
> One for the list(s) of projects using Python...
> 

"The actual go-live date is set for February 2006 when over 800
planners and administrative staff across the state will access a
repository of 82 300MB planning schemes and an amendment rate of 500
per year."

The article must have been written before Feb. 2006. I wonder what the
status of the project is at this point.

Grig

From sdeibel at wingware.com  Wed Jul 11 19:33:40 2007
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (Stephan Deibel)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:33:40 -0400
Subject: [python-advocacy] Potentially high profile Python project
In-Reply-To: <415655.55137.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <415655.55137.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46951474.7030001@wingware.com>

Grig Gheorghiu wrote:
>> Just saw this Australian govt project using Zope and Python:
>>
>>
> http://www.intergovworld.com/article/idgml-2d0d9393-b9ca-4e6b-b9b6-4de79a155d05/pg1.htm
>> One for the list(s) of projects using Python...
>>
> 
> "The actual go-live date is set for February 2006 when over 800
> planners and administrative staff across the state will access a
> repository of 82 300MB planning schemes and an amendment rate of 500
> per year."
> 
> The article must have been written before Feb. 2006. I wonder what the
> status of the project is at this point.

In fact it was written Dec 2005, so it's old news... sorry, I assumed
Google news alerts were smarter than that.

I wasn't able to find a website for the project so it's one of those
"open source" projects that hasn't been released.

Again, sorry about that...

- Stephan

From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Thu Jul 12 23:12:54 2007
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:12:54 -0300
Subject: [python-advocacy] New list member
Message-ID: <7528bcdd0707121412n48841bebkcc02a904e114e56b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I thought it was time I joined this list.  I've picked up programming
in Python as a hobby a little less than 3 years ago, and it's been
lots of fun. And I try, in my limited way, to share the pleasure with
others.

In this post: http://python-advocacy.blogspot.com/2007/03/pythonic-way-to-measure-and-improve.html
Jeff Rush mentioned the possibility of having a way to "certify"
Python programmers.  One tool he suggested is Crunchy, which has been
my main programming interest for the past 1.5 year or so.

The next release (0.9.1) will contain the first version of a "session
logging" feature, where the stdin (user code) and stdout/stderr can be
recorded and evaluated by a third party.  (However, this feature is
not going to be very well documented.)

If anyone is interested in such a feature (to be used as Jeff
described in his post, or in any other way to promote Python), I would
like to hear from you.  At this moment, the session logging works ...
but I have no use myself for it and don't know what I should do to
improve on it and make it more useful for those that need it.

Cheers,
Andr? (Roberge)

From roy at panix.com  Fri Jul 13 14:38:11 2007
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:38:11 -0400
Subject: [python-advocacy] python article on digg
In-Reply-To: <469206BE.5070804@taupro.com>
References: <469206BE.5070804@taupro.com>
Message-ID: <2BD692F7-7DAE-49AC-A0B1-D0908053B988@panix.com>

In case you haven't seen it yet:

http://www.digg.com/programming/Master_Python_in_10_Minutes

--
roy at panix.com


From mikeyp at snaplogic.org  Thu Jul 19 08:12:56 2007
From: mikeyp at snaplogic.org (Michael Pittaro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:12:56 -0700
Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Advocacy at OSCON, July 23 - 27
In-Reply-To: <46940B77.2060702@snaplogic.org>
References: <4693CA9F.8040802@snaplogic.org>	<4335d2c40707101149i61531ad4r1f8dd46a0058f36f@mail.gmail.com>
	<46940B77.2060702@snaplogic.org>
Message-ID: <469F00E8.1000508@snaplogic.org>

Michael Pittaro wrote:
> David Goodger wrote:
>   
>> On 7/10/07, Michael Pittaro <mikeyp at snaplogic.org> wrote:
>>     
>>> One though is to to set up an Advocacy BOF on Monday to coordinate
>>> activities during OSCON.    However, I'm not sure who will be arriving
>>> that early, or whether it's better to coordinate activities sooner.
>>>       
>> I'm also arriving July 23rd.  If you set up something (probably
>> evening, after the tutorials), I'll be there.  It would be good to
>> announce it (and the Wednesday BoF) on python-list and
>> python-announce.  I can do a PSF blog entry.
>>
>>     
I sent short announcements to python-list, and python-announce, as well
as tossing up a SnapLogic blog post with a list of Python related
sessions.   

Apart from that, I'm not sure how much additional coordination we can do
before the conference, so I'll see you at OSCon.

mike

-- 
mikeyp at snaplogic.org            http://www.snaplogic.org


From carl at personnelware.com  Fri Jul 20 18:27:38 2007
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:27:38 -0500
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
Message-ID: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>

story time:  db developer friend asked me what I was doing, told him "Python, it 
is great.  Here are some url's of what I am doing: this, that and 
http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/CalendarRunThough "  he replied 'Interesting. 
  Wish I had more time to explore further.  Feel free to keep me posted with 
what you're doing... "

deep thought time: "Wish I had more time to explore further."  =  "I don't think 
I have enough time to actually get something useful out of it"  or some sort of 
perceived Return On Investment (RoI).   I am pretty sure I had that feeling too, 
and now have a feeling I was very wrong.

One thing that I think would help people 'ease into Python' is the fact that 
python without the batteries (modules) is only like 25 commands and functions. 
and 1/2 of those aren't even needed 'at first.'  I'm guessing you can hit the 
RoI level most people want by looking over about 10 python keywords and some 
list/dict notation.  you don't even need to execute it, just see it, read it, 
understand it.

I am thinking we need about 10 - 20 little snippits like this:

 >>> for x in [1,7,'abc',4]: print x,
1 7 abc 4

The above has some important features I find subtle, like the fact that to 
traverse a list, you don't need to A) determine the length, B) use that length 
as the upper limit of a for loop, C) use the loop counter as an index into the 
list.  granted other languages have FOR EACH which is similar, python seems to 
... um... use lists more intelligently?   (hmm... I have a concept in my head, 
but I am having trouble putting it to words.  may not be important, cuz readers 
of this list probably know what I am talking about.)  Python makes very 
efficient use of a small command set.

So I would like to collect a "one page" set of snippits.  guessing a wiki page 
would be good for this.

Would this be appropriate place/name?

http://wiki.python.org/moin/EasyAsPy

Carl K

From jeff at taupro.com  Fri Jul 20 19:15:09 2007
From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:15:09 -0500
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <46A0ED9D.9020709@taupro.com>

Carl Karsten wrote:

> One thing that I think would help people 'ease into Python' is the fact that 
> python without the batteries (modules) is only like 25 commands and functions. 
> and 1/2 of those aren't even needed 'at first.'  I'm guessing you can hit the 
> RoI level most people want by looking over about 10 python keywords and some 
> list/dict notation.  you don't even need to execute it, just see it, read it, 
> understand it.
> 
> I am thinking we need about 10 - 20 little snippits like this:
> 
>  >>> for x in [1,7,'abc',4]: print x,
> 1 7 abc 4
> 
> The above has some important features I find subtle, like the fact that to 
> traverse a list, you don't need to A) determine the length, B) use that length 
> as the upper limit of a for loop, C) use the loop counter as an index into the 
> list.  granted other languages have FOR EACH which is similar, python seems to 
> ... um... use lists more intelligently?   (hmm... I have a concept in my head, 
> but I am having trouble putting it to words.  may not be important, cuz readers 
> of this list probably know what I am talking about.)  Python makes very 
> efficient use of a small command set.
> 
> So I would like to collect a "one page" set of snippits.  guessing a wiki page 
> would be good for this.  Would this be appropriate place/name?
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/EasyAsPy

That's a good idea, I think.  That wiki page would be fine.  Once collected,
it would be neat if someone would organize them into a series of slides
(reST/S5) and then record a screencast that gives a short voiceover of each
slide, basicaly what points to take away from each.  It'd make a good talk to
go into the "5-Minutes with Python" video series on www.showmedo.com.

Along these lines I'm working up a series of screencasts that basically are
code walkthroughs, as I agree with Carl that the beauty and clarity of Python
source can speak for itself.  Can anyone suggest interesting programs, that
aren't too large, that would make great tours?

-Jeff

From lac at openend.se  Fri Jul 20 19:24:01 2007
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:24:01 +0200
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: Message from Jeff Rush <jeff@taupro.com> 
	of "Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:15:09 CDT." <46A0ED9D.9020709@taupro.com> 
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com> <46A0ED9D.9020709@taupro.com>
Message-ID: <200707201724.l6KHO15f029649@theraft.openend.se>

Some good snippets and things suitable for tours live here:
http://www.uselesspython.com/

Laura


From mikeyp at snaplogic.org  Fri Jul 20 19:39:43 2007
From: mikeyp at snaplogic.org (Mike Pittaro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:39:43 -0700
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
Message-ID: <46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>

Carl Karsten wrote:
> story time:  db developer friend asked me what I was doing, told him "Python, it 
> is great.  Here are some url's of what I am doing: this, that and 
> http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/CalendarRunThough "  he replied 'Interesting. 
>   Wish I had more time to explore further.  Feel free to keep me posted with 
> what you're doing... "
> 
> deep thought time: "Wish I had more time to explore further."  =  "I don't think 
> I have enough time to actually get something useful out of it"  or some sort of 
> perceived Return On Investment (RoI).   I am pretty sure I had that feeling too, 
> and now have a feeling I was very wrong.
> 
> One thing that I think would help people 'ease into Python' is the fact that 
> python without the batteries (modules) is only like 25 commands and functions. 
> and 1/2 of those aren't even needed 'at first.'  I'm guessing you can hit the 
> RoI level most people want by looking over about 10 python keywords and some 
> list/dict notation.  you don't even need to execute it, just see it, read it, 
> understand it.
> 
> I am thinking we need about 10 - 20 little snippits like this:
> 
>  >>> for x in [1,7,'abc',4]: print x,
> 1 7 abc 4
> 
> The above has some important features I find subtle, like the fact that to 
> traverse a list, you don't need to A) determine the length, B) use that length 
> as the upper limit of a for loop, C) use the loop counter as an index into the 
> list.  granted other languages have FOR EACH which is similar, python seems to 
> ... um... use lists more intelligently?   (hmm... I have a concept in my head, 
> but I am having trouble putting it to words.  may not be important, cuz readers 
> of this list probably know what I am talking about.)  Python makes very 
> efficient use of a small command set.
> 
> So I would like to collect a "one page" set of snippits.  guessing a wiki page 
> would be good for this.

> 
Along these lines, I dealt with a similar problem in the past, converting people to different 'dialects' of SQL.
The method that seemed to be most successful was a side by side 'cheat sheet' mapping of commands in the different dialects.  

If we collected a set of snippets, demonstrating simple and common operations in a few languages along side of  Python snippets, it might help people that already know another language.

Of course, we have to make those examples realistic, and not create (too much of) a debate over which language implements the idiom better :-)

> Would this be appropriate place/name?
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/EasyAsPy
> 
> Carl K


-- 
mikeyp at snaplogic.org                                                    http://www.snaplogic.org

From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 19:44:22 2007
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:44:22 -0500
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
	<46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550707201044p365a420bpf57acef92d0183ed@mail.gmail.com>

I just started it off. Note the nead for triple braces for literal
code snippets in the markup.

mt

On 7/20/07, Mike Pittaro <mikeyp at snaplogic.org> wrote:
> Carl Karsten wrote:
> > story time:  db developer friend asked me what I was doing, told him "Python, it
> > is great.  Here are some url's of what I am doing: this, that and
> > http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/CalendarRunThough "  he replied 'Interesting.
> >   Wish I had more time to explore further.  Feel free to keep me posted with
> > what you're doing... "
> >
> > deep thought time: "Wish I had more time to explore further."  =  "I don't think
> > I have enough time to actually get something useful out of it"  or some sort of
> > perceived Return On Investment (RoI).   I am pretty sure I had that feeling too,
> > and now have a feeling I was very wrong.
> >
> > One thing that I think would help people 'ease into Python' is the fact that
> > python without the batteries (modules) is only like 25 commands and functions.
> > and 1/2 of those aren't even needed 'at first.'  I'm guessing you can hit the
> > RoI level most people want by looking over about 10 python keywords and some
> > list/dict notation.  you don't even need to execute it, just see it, read it,
> > understand it.
> >
> > I am thinking we need about 10 - 20 little snippits like this:
> >
> >  >>> for x in [1,7,'abc',4]: print x,
> > 1 7 abc 4
> >
> > The above has some important features I find subtle, like the fact that to
> > traverse a list, you don't need to A) determine the length, B) use that length
> > as the upper limit of a for loop, C) use the loop counter as an index into the
> > list.  granted other languages have FOR EACH which is similar, python seems to
> > ... um... use lists more intelligently?   (hmm... I have a concept in my head,
> > but I am having trouble putting it to words.  may not be important, cuz readers
> > of this list probably know what I am talking about.)  Python makes very
> > efficient use of a small command set.
> >
> > So I would like to collect a "one page" set of snippits.  guessing a wiki page
> > would be good for this.
>
> >
> Along these lines, I dealt with a similar problem in the past, converting people to different 'dialects' of SQL.
> The method that seemed to be most successful was a side by side 'cheat sheet' mapping of commands in the different dialects.
>
> If we collected a set of snippets, demonstrating simple and common operations in a few languages along side of  Python snippets, it might help people that already know another language.
>
> Of course, we have to make those examples realistic, and not create (too much of) a debate over which language implements the idiom better :-)
>
> > Would this be appropriate place/name?
> >
> > http://wiki.python.org/moin/EasyAsPy
> >
> > Carl K
>
>
> --
> mikeyp at snaplogic.org                                                    http://www.snaplogic.org
> _______________________________________________
> Advocacy mailing list
> Advocacy at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy
>

From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 19:48:29 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:48:29 +0300
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
	<46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0707201048h1e8339b6u5e82810e08b08d5e@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/20/07, Mike Pittaro <mikeyp at snaplogic.org> wrote:
> Carl Karsten wrote:
> > One thing that I think would help people 'ease into Python' is the fact that
> > python without the batteries (modules) is only like 25 commands and functions.
> > and 1/2 of those aren't even needed 'at first.'  I'm guessing you can hit the
> > RoI level most people want by looking over about 10 python keywords and some
> > list/dict notation.  you don't even need to execute it, just see it, read it,
> > understand it.
> >
> > I am thinking we need about 10 - 20 little snippits like this:
> >
> >  >>> for x in [1,7,'abc',4]: print x,
> > 1 7 abc 4
> >
> > The above has some important features I find subtle, like the fact that to
> > traverse a list, you don't need to A) determine the length, B) use that length
> > as the upper limit of a for loop, C) use the loop counter as an index into the
> > list.  granted other languages have FOR EACH which is similar, python seems to
> > ... um... use lists more intelligently?   (hmm... I have a concept in my head,
> > but I am having trouble putting it to words.  may not be important, cuz readers
> > of this list probably know what I am talking about.)  Python makes very
> > efficient use of a small command set.
> >
> > So I would like to collect a "one page" set of snippits.  guessing a wiki page
> > would be good for this.
>
> >
> Along these lines, I dealt with a similar problem in the past, converting people to different 'dialects' of SQL.
> The method that seemed to be most successful was a side by side 'cheat sheet' mapping of commands in the different dialects.
>
> If we collected a set of snippets, demonstrating simple and common operations in a few languages along side of  Python snippets, it might help people that already know another language.
>
> Of course, we have to make those examples realistic, and not create (too much of) a debate over which language implements the idiom better :-)
>

Something somewhat similar, perhaps a good place for some initial examples:
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/

From dorai at thodla.com  Fri Jul 20 20:19:19 2007
From: dorai at thodla.com (Dorai Thodla)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:49:19 +0530
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0707201048h1e8339b6u5e82810e08b08d5e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
	<46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>
	<7afdee2f0707201048h1e8339b6u5e82810e08b08d5e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <603b7e560707201119m59ee4dd4h94ca10bb7d254f28@mail.gmail.com>

How about picking a set of examples from a book ? Either "Software Tools" or
"Java in a Nutshell"? We already have those examples. It was written by
experts. We just provide the Python equivalents!

Dorai

On 7/20/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 7/20/07, Mike Pittaro <mikeyp at snaplogic.org> wrote:
> > Carl Karsten wrote:
> > > One thing that I think would help people 'ease into Python' is the
> fact that
> > > python without the batteries (modules) is only like 25 commands and
> functions.
> > > and 1/2 of those aren't even needed 'at first.'  I'm guessing you can
> hit the
> > > RoI level most people want by looking over about 10 python keywords
> and some
> > > list/dict notation.  you don't even need to execute it, just see it,
> read it,
> > > understand it.
> > >
> > > I am thinking we need about 10 - 20 little snippits like this:
> > >
> > >  >>> for x in [1,7,'abc',4]: print x,
> > > 1 7 abc 4
> > >
> > > The above has some important features I find subtle, like the fact
> that to
> > > traverse a list, you don't need to A) determine the length, B) use
> that length
> > > as the upper limit of a for loop, C) use the loop counter as an index
> into the
> > > list.  granted other languages have FOR EACH which is similar, python
> seems to
> > > ... um... use lists more intelligently?   (hmm... I have a concept in
> my head,
> > > but I am having trouble putting it to words.  may not be important,
> cuz readers
> > > of this list probably know what I am talking about.)  Python makes
> very
> > > efficient use of a small command set.
> > >
> > > So I would like to collect a "one page" set of snippits.  guessing a
> wiki page
> > > would be good for this.
> >
> > >
> > Along these lines, I dealt with a similar problem in the past,
> converting people to different 'dialects' of SQL.
> > The method that seemed to be most successful was a side by side 'cheat
> sheet' mapping of commands in the different dialects.
> >
> > If we collected a set of snippets, demonstrating simple and common
> operations in a few languages along side of  Python snippets, it might help
> people that already know another language.
> >
> > Of course, we have to make those examples realistic, and not create (too
> much of) a debate over which language implements the idiom better :-)
> >
>
> Something somewhat similar, perhaps a good place for some initial
> examples:
> http://pleac.sourceforge.net/
> _______________________________________________
> Advocacy mailing list
> Advocacy at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy
>



-- 
Dorai Thodla
www.thodla.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20070720/f5952402/attachment-0001.htm 

From mtobis at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 20:31:04 2007
From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:31:04 -0500
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <603b7e560707201119m59ee4dd4h94ca10bb7d254f28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
	<46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>
	<7afdee2f0707201048h1e8339b6u5e82810e08b08d5e@mail.gmail.com>
	<603b7e560707201119m59ee4dd4h94ca10bb7d254f28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3aa55550707201131g597cf3f6q3f12ae4e058ca2d7@mail.gmail.com>

You mean like this?

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/idl/jidlExample2.html

:-)

seriously, someone has done this

http://www.ferg.org/projects/python_java_side-by-side.html

mt

On 7/20/07, Dorai Thodla <dorai at thodla.com> wrote:
> How about picking a set of examples from a book ? Either "Software Tools" or
> "Java in a Nutshell"? We already have those examples. It was written by
> experts. We just provide the Python equivalents!
>
>  Dorai
>
>
> On 7/20/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 7/20/07, Mike Pittaro <mikeyp at snaplogic.org> wrote:
> > > Carl Karsten wrote:
> > > > One thing that I think would help people 'ease into Python' is the
> fact that
> > > > python without the batteries (modules) is only like 25 commands and
> functions.
> > > > and 1/2 of those aren't even needed 'at first.'  I'm guessing you can
> hit the
> > > > RoI level most people want by looking over about 10 python keywords
> and some
> > > > list/dict notation.  you don't even need to execute it, just see it,
> read it,
> > > > understand it.
> > > >
> > > > I am thinking we need about 10 - 20 little snippits like this:
> > > >
> > > >  >>> for x in [1,7,'abc',4]: print x,
> > > > 1 7 abc 4
> > > >
> > > > The above has some important features I find subtle, like the fact
> that to
> > > > traverse a list, you don't need to A) determine the length, B) use
> that length
> > > > as the upper limit of a for loop, C) use the loop counter as an index
> into the
> > > > list.  granted other languages have FOR EACH which is similar, python
> seems to
> > > > ... um... use lists more intelligently?   (hmm... I have a concept in
> my head,
> > > > but I am having trouble putting it to words.  may not be important,
> cuz readers
> > > > of this list probably know what I am talking about.)  Python makes
> very
> > > > efficient use of a small command set.
> > > >
> > > > So I would like to collect a "one page" set of snippits.  guessing a
> wiki page
> > > > would be good for this.
> > >
> > > >
> > > Along these lines, I dealt with a similar problem in the past,
> converting people to different 'dialects' of SQL.
> > > The method that seemed to be most successful was a side by side 'cheat
> sheet' mapping of commands in the different dialects.
> > >
> > > If we collected a set of snippets, demonstrating simple and common
> operations in a few languages along side of  Python snippets, it might help
> people that already know another language.
> > >
> > > Of course, we have to make those examples realistic, and not create (too
> much of) a debate over which language implements the idiom better :-)
> > >
> >
> > Something somewhat similar, perhaps a good place for some initial
> examples:
> > http://pleac.sourceforge.net/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advocacy mailing list
> > Advocacy at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dorai Thodla
> www.thodla.com
> _______________________________________________
> Advocacy mailing list
> Advocacy at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy
>
>

From nico at tekNico.net  Fri Jul 20 20:08:09 2007
From: nico at tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:08:09 +0200
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>
	<46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>
Message-ID: <46A0FA09.2090106@tekNico.net>

Mike Pittaro wrote:
> Along these lines, I dealt with a similar problem in the past, converting
> people to different 'dialects' of SQL.
> The method that seemed to be most successful was a side by side 'cheat
> sheet' mapping of commands in the different dialects.
>
> If we collected a set of snippets, demonstrating simple and common
> operations in a few languages along side of  Python snippets, it might
> help people that already know another language.

Here are two collections of snippets in Python and Java:

A subjective analysis of two high-level, object-oriented languages -
Comparing Python to Java
http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html

Python & Java - A Side-by-Side Comparison
http://www.ferg.org/projects/python_java_side-by-side.html

And a syntax comparison between languages:

http://merd.sourceforge.net/pixel/language-study/syntax-across-languages.html


-- 
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/

The Christian religion, like those of Judaism, Islam and all the rest,
are manufactured belief systems to keep their advocates in mental and
emotional servitude, while being played off against each other
to divide and rule. -- David Icke, February 2007


From roy at panix.com  Sat Jul 21 23:11:44 2007
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:11:44 -0400
Subject: [python-advocacy] Some nice stuff C2 has to say about Python
Message-ID: <439B818B-06FD-4AC6-A51E-A505818BF22E@panix.com>

A nice quote from http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LotsOfShortMethods

> Is this because you're working in a language which has a large  
> coding overhead for extracting a class? When I program in  
> CeePlusPlus, I am very reluctant to extract a class, because it  
> usually means:
> Creating a new header file, adding it to the project, adding it to  
> the CVS repository
> Coding an include guard in the header file
> Cutting and pasting #includes or forward declarations
> Cutting and pasting method prototypes from the 'parent' class
> Cutting and pasting data member definitions from the 'parent' class
> Creating an implementation file, adding it to the project, adding  
> it to the CVS repository.
> Cutting and pasting #includes into the implementation file
> Cutting and pasting method definitions into the implementation file
> Replacing the 'parent' class's name with my class's name in the  
> method definitions
> On the other hand, when I develop in PythonLanguage, I extract  
> classes all the time, because:
> Often a new file is not necessary, since the definitions are much  
> shorter
> No cutting and pasting of import statements if there's no new file
> No method prototypes to cut and paste, no matter what
> No data member definitions (as opposed to initialisations) to cut  
> and paste, unless they're class members (as opposed to object members)
> No separate implementation file to have to deal with
> No need to replace the old class name with the new class name in  
> the method definitions
> I <3 Python.

Oh, BTW, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PythonLanguage has some good advocacy  
stuff too.

--
roy at panix.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20070721/ca3e5374/attachment.htm 

From mikeyp at snaplogic.org  Mon Jul 23 23:03:40 2007
From: mikeyp at snaplogic.org (Michael Pittaro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:03:40 -0700
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <c3aa55550707201131g597cf3f6q3f12ae4e058ca2d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46A0E27A.9030807@personnelware.com>	<46A0F35F.8040403@snaplogic.org>	<7afdee2f0707201048h1e8339b6u5e82810e08b08d5e@mail.gmail.com>	<603b7e560707201119m59ee4dd4h94ca10bb7d254f28@mail.gmail.com>
	<c3aa55550707201131g597cf3f6q3f12ae4e058ca2d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46A517AC.5030601@snaplogic.org>

Michael Tobis wrote:
> You mean like this?
>
> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/idl/jidlExample2.html
>
> :-)
>
> seriously, someone has done this
>
> http://www.ferg.org/projects/python_java_side-by-side.html
>
> mt
>   

Actually, I discovered there is a Python Wiki page that already lists a
number of language comparisons:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/LanguageComparisons

I added the missing links from this thread to that page.

Although these comparisons are relevant, I think they are getting away
from Carl's original suggestion, which I like.

mike
 
-- 
mikeyp at snaplogic.org            http://www.snaplogic.org


From jeff at taupro.com  Tue Jul 24 07:30:35 2007
From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:30:35 -0500
Subject: [python-advocacy] Usergroups Forming: Arizona and Carolina US
	Regions
Message-ID: <46A58E7B.2050202@taupro.com>

Two new Python usergroups are being organized!

= Arizona =

Michael March is starting a group for those in the Flagstaff/Phoenix/Tucson
region of Arizona.  The first meeting to get organized will be held on *Monday
July 30th* at 6:30pm.  Location is not yet set -- need input from potential
attendees.

If you are interested, a mailing list and wiki page have been established:

  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/sunpiggies

  http://wiki.python.org/moin/ValleyOfTheSunPiggies

And also a Meetup.com group, where you can sign up to receive automated
calendar reminders of group activities.

  http://python.meetup.com/184/


= North/South Carolina =

While there is an existing group TriZPUG for the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill
region, a new group is being formed for the *Charlotte and North-Central South
Carolina area*.  No meetings have yet been scheduled - to participate in
discussions join the Google Group:

  http://groups.google.com/group/charpy


= Other Groups =

There are 34 states with Python usergroups, leaving 16 without any Python
organizations at all -- and this is just in the United States.  We would like
to encourage the formation of more groups worldwide.  If you've been wishing
there were meetings near you, step forward and help initiate or revitalize
one.  There are experienced organizers waiting to mentor you on the mailing list:

  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/group-organizers

Usergroups are a lot of fun, a source of employment opportunities and a great
way to enhance your programming and teaching skills.  The Python Software
Foundation and the experienced group organizers are ready to support you in
your efforts.

Jeff Rush
Python Advocacy Coordinator


From jeff at taupro.com  Tue Jul 24 08:35:58 2007
From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:35:58 -0500
Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Trainers, Promote Thyself!
Message-ID: <46A59DCE.2080004@taupro.com>

With the recent establishment of the wiki page on python.org for those who
offer training services for the Python language, we now have 23 listed, worldwide.

    http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonTraining

Many of the trainers are individuals or small companies, and it can be hard to
get the attention of the big IT houses.  While skill credentials and a
portfolio of past training gigs are important, perhaps one of the best
promoters is when someone has actually experienced one of your classes.  They
gain insight into your speaking style, how you relate to the students and your
ability to explain complex technical subjects in an approachable way.  No
class syllabus can convey that.  The Python community has a valuable resource
that can give you the next best thing.  Screencasting!

Screencasting is a multimedia creation that focuses on the instructor's
desktop, with voiceover guidance.  It can be in the format of an online
slideshow, a guided sourcecode walkthrough or a follow-along interactive
session.  They can be as long or short as you wish and they have opportunities
for branding, by using custom wallpaper behind your talks desktop and musical
lead-in/fade-out.

Screencasts can be hosted on www.showmedo.com or, if done with a large font,
video.google.com.  They can also be embedded in your website while hosted
elsewhere, as shown at:

    http://www.python.org/doc/av/5minutes/

You can learn more about the details with a talk series I put together:

    Casting Your Knowledge, With Style
    http://www.showmedo.com/videos/series?name=bETR23HwS

But perhaps you're really busy on current projects and short on time. Consider
 arranging an audio interview about an upcoming seminar you're offering and
making it available as a podcast.  Ron Stephens of Python 411 makes available
an excellent collection of podcasts and may be interested in hosting yours.

Unlike face-to-face presentation opportunities, screencasts/podcasts have the
additional benefit that they promote your training offerings while you're busy
on other gigs.  It's almost like cloning yourself and having more time for
promotion.  It's all about leverage.

Jeff Rush
Python Advocacy Coordinator

From m_tayseer82 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 24 12:16:13 2007
From: m_tayseer82 at yahoo.com (Mohammad Tayseer)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:16:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [python-advocacy] easy as py
In-Reply-To: <46A517AC.5030601@snaplogic.org>
Message-ID: <931398.99341.qm@web31111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Also on the wiki, there is a page for SimplePrograms
http://wiki.python.org/moin/SimplePrograms
It gives a taste of Python, but starting from "Doctest-based testing", the examples are interesting




Mohammad Tayseer
http://spellcoder.com/blogs/tayseer

       
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20070724/debf576f/attachment.html 

From carl at personnelware.com  Wed Jul 25 22:07:20 2007
From: carl at personnelware.com (Carl Karsten)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:07:20 -0500
Subject: [python-advocacy] Load of Links
Message-ID: <46A7AD78.1040403@personnelware.com>

in spelunking the web, I found an impressive collection of python links.

http://www.awaretek.com/tutorials.html

no clue of quality, other than it didn't have my win32api docs I was hoping for.

Carl K

From irnyad at gmail.com  Tue Jul 31 09:31:26 2007
From: irnyad at gmail.com (Jason Ward)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:31:26 +0200
Subject: [python-advocacy] Nasm_with_Python
Message-ID: <1ea031080707310031k424360dapa10e559296506f83@mail.gmail.com>

I am interested in writing a library in Nasm and calling it from python.
Python can call C++ libraries. Nasm can be made into an inc file and can be
included
in C++. So I was wondering if this combination is possible or if there is a
better way.

If it can be done please explain how I can do this.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20070731/1fa45bc7/attachment.html 

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 31 16:44:33 2007
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:44:33 -0700
Subject: [python-advocacy] Nasm_with_Python
In-Reply-To: <1ea031080707310031k424360dapa10e559296506f83@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1ea031080707310031k424360dapa10e559296506f83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070731144433.GA5274@panix.com>

On Tue, Jul 31, 2007, Jason Ward wrote:
>
> I am interested in writing a library in Nasm and calling it from
> python.  Python can call C++ libraries. Nasm can be made into an
> inc file and can be included in C++. So I was wondering if this
> combination is possible or if there is a better way.

This is the wrong place to ask questions like this.  I suggest trying
either comp.lang.python or subscribing to the capi-sig.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.