From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk Sat Apr 5 15:37:04 2008 From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:37:04 +0100 Subject: [python-advocacy] =?windows-1252?q?Resolver_Systems_announces_the?= =?windows-1252?q?_signature_of_10_Resolver_One_=99_Licences_to_its_first_?= =?windows-1252?q?French_corporate_client=3A_Credit_Cooperatif?= Message-ID: <47F78080.4050002@voidspace.org.uk> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/04/prweb824964.htm We use Excel and VBA, but we prefer Python for its combination of simplicity and power. We were looking to better link spreadsheets with Python programming, and Resolver One seemed to be the most elegant solution because it was based on Python but also gave us compatibility with our IT team's architectural choice of Microsoft .NET. Michael Foord From michael at voidspace.org.uk Sat Apr 5 15:04:02 2008 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:04:02 +0100 Subject: [python-advocacy] =?windows-1252?q?Resolver_Systems_announces_the?= =?windows-1252?q?_signature_of_10_Resolver_One_=99_Licences_to_its_first_?= =?windows-1252?q?French_corporate_client=3A_Credit_Cooperatif?= Message-ID: <47F778C2.5090509@voidspace.org.uk> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/04/prweb824964.htm We use Excel and VBA, but we prefer Python for its combination of simplicity and power. We were looking to better link spreadsheets with Python programming, and Resolver One seemed to be the most elegant solution because it was based on Python but also gave us compatibility with our IT team's architectural choice of Microsoft .NET. Michael Foord From aahz at pythoncraft.com Tue Apr 8 15:09:53 2008 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 06:09:53 -0700 Subject: [python-advocacy] FWD: [Baypiggies] Google App Engine Message-ID: <20080408130953.GA13680@panix.com> No comment needed, I guess ;-) ----- Forwarded message from Shannon -jj Behrens ----- > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:55:59 -0700 > From: Shannon -jj Behrens > To: Baypiggies > Subject: [Baypiggies] Google App Engine > > http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/whatisgoogleappengine.html > > Does anyone else feel as overwhelmed as I do? > > -jj > > -- > I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords! > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." --Bill Harlan From noah.gift at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 04:19:41 2008 From: noah.gift at gmail.com (Noah Gift) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:19:41 -0400 Subject: [python-advocacy] Why another language? Message-ID: <75FA0F98-7319-4182-A76C-8547F8E4F360@gmail.com> Hi, I think this might be my first post to the advocacy list, but I though I would share an interesting story. Jeremy Jones and I are in the last couple weeks of finishing, "Python for Unix and Linux Systems Administration", and we both feel like it could make a major ripple in that space. Our hope, honestly, is to displace to some degree, the notion that Bash and Perl are the only languages for Systems Administration. In fact, although even a few Python programmers might disagree, I would argue that only a few lines of Bash is the most you should write, as Python is just a better language period. My personal reason for believing this is that even Bash can get out of control, and a 50 line Bash script has a habit of turning into two thousand lines of unreadable and untestable code. I figure if you always follow the same philosophy with all of the code you write, then you will always have readable and testable code, thus the emphasis on avoiding even a language like Bash, unless you absolutely have to for portability reasons. Last night I attended an Open Solaris User Group meeting to do some research on the use of Python by Solaris Sysadmins and developers, and was quite shocked. Apparently I have been living in an ivory tower of Python Utopia, as I was quite shocked to find out that no one there used Python, or even tried to that I was aware of. In addition, when I mentioned I was there for research for a book, one highly experienced Sun Engineer mentioned, "I hope you mention why people need to learn another language like Python". This caught me off guard a bit, as I thought the benefits of Python were known to all. He did bring up a good point though, and I thought it would be a great question to pose to the list. If someone has been programming in C, Bash and Perl for years, how can you really make a persuasive argument they also need to learn Python. I suppose I would argue that once you program in Python, you won't ever want to use another language again, but that is my personal bias. What is our, or "the", answer for someone that poses a very reasonable question like this? Noah Gift / http://noahgift.com From ctrachte at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 06:37:25 2008 From: ctrachte at gmail.com (Carl Trachte) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 21:37:25 -0700 Subject: [python-advocacy] Why another language? In-Reply-To: <75FA0F98-7319-4182-A76C-8547F8E4F360@gmail.com> References: <75FA0F98-7319-4182-A76C-8547F8E4F360@gmail.com> Message-ID: <426ada670804092137k5ce9643er75d8432af526e4c8@mail.gmail.com> On 4/9/08, Noah Gift wrote: > What is our, or "the", answer for > someone that poses a very reasonable question like this? Noah, You already made one (actually two) good point(s): > even Bash can get out of control, > and a 50 line Bash script has a habit of turning into two thousand > lines of unreadable and untestable code. > Two of the points I would make are already covered in your point: - easy - readable - maintainable My only "original" point is "easy". Sean Reifschneider IIRC gave a talk on sysadmin at this year's Pycon. That might be a resource if he's posted his slides. Carl T. From d-beazley at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 10 13:17:17 2008 From: d-beazley at sbcglobal.net (David Beazley) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 04:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [python-advocacy] Why another language? Message-ID: <506459.84793.qm@web81902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is interesting, but not all that surprising in my own experience. However, I'd like to suggest that awareness of Python may be growing on the sysadmin front. For instance, last fall l gave a Python tutorial at the USENIX LISA conference---a sysadmin conference I normally wouldn't associate with heavy Python activity. On top of that, their tutorial coordinator is the person who initiated the whole thing. In other words, they wanted some kind of Python tutorial. As for selling Python to crusty sysadmins, I think you simply have to stay focused on solving real world problems. Personally, I seem to get the most bang for my buck showing sysadmins Python generators. You can do some interesting things processing huge data files, infinite data streams, and other things with generators. This resonates well and is unusual enough to avoid debates where someone is going to argue that Python is just the same as Bash/Perl/Awk, etc. Cheers, Dave ----- Original Message ---- From: Noah Gift To: advocacy at python.org Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:19:41 PM Subject: [python-advocacy] Why another language? Hi, I think this might be my first post to the advocacy list, but I though I would share an interesting story. Jeremy Jones and I are in the last couple weeks of finishing, "Python for Unix and Linux Systems Administration", and we both feel like it could make a major ripple in that space. Our hope, honestly, is to displace to some degree, the notion that Bash and Perl are the only languages for Systems Administration. In fact, although even a few Python programmers might disagree, I would argue that only a few lines of Bash is the most you should write, as Python is just a better language period. My personal reason for believing this is that even Bash can get out of control, and a 50 line Bash script has a habit of turning into two thousand lines of unreadable and untestable code. I figure if you always follow the same philosophy with all of the code you write, then you will always have readable and testable code, thus the emphasis on avoiding even a language like Bash, unless you absolutely have to for portability reasons. Last night I attended an Open Solaris User Group meeting to do some research on the use of Python by Solaris Sysadmins and developers, and was quite shocked. Apparently I have been living in an ivory tower of Python Utopia, as I was quite shocked to find out that no one there used Python, or even tried to that I was aware of. In addition, when I mentioned I was there for research for a book, one highly experienced Sun Engineer mentioned, "I hope you mention why people need to learn another language like Python". This caught me off guard a bit, as I thought the benefits of Python were known to all. He did bring up a good point though, and I thought it would be a great question to pose to the list. If someone has been programming in C, Bash and Perl for years, how can you really make a persuasive argument they also need to learn Python. I suppose I would argue that once you program in Python, you won't ever want to use another language again, but that is my personal bias. What is our, or "the", answer for someone that poses a very reasonable question like this? Noah Gift / http://noahgift.com _______________________________________________ Advocacy mailing list Advocacy at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy From Cameron at phaseit.net Thu Apr 10 19:51:07 2008 From: Cameron at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:51:07 +0000 Subject: [python-advocacy] Why another language? In-Reply-To: <75FA0F98-7319-4182-A76C-8547F8E4F360@gmail.com> References: <75FA0F98-7319-4182-A76C-8547F8E4F360@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080410175107.GA9943@lairds.us> On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 10:19:41PM -0400, Noah Gift wrote: . . . > I think this might be my first post to the advocacy list, but I though > I would share an interesting story. Jeremy Jones and I are in the > last couple weeks of finishing, "Python for Unix and Linux Systems > Administration", and we both feel like it could make a major ripple in > that space. Our hope, honestly, is to displace to some degree, the > notion that Bash and Perl are the only languages for Systems > Administration. In fact, although even a few Python programmers might . . . > but that is my personal bias. What is our, or "the", answer for > someone that poses a very reasonable question like this? . . . I'll answer an entirely different question: the things you write are so reasonable that they've been said before on more than one occasion. In a few cases, they've even been published, examples of which are available through http://www.fourm.info/Python/Python_Item.2004-08-14.2557 Best of luck with your book. From amk at amk.ca Sun Apr 13 16:18:35 2008 From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:18:35 -0400 Subject: [python-advocacy] Other Python podcasts? Message-ID: <20080413141835.GA1162@amk.local> I've updated the podcast page at http://advocacy.python.org/podcasts/ to use the standard look and to link to Python 411 and 'This Week in Django'. Are there other Python-related podcasts out there? --amk From mtobis at gmail.com Sun Apr 13 21:26:16 2008 From: mtobis at gmail.com (Michael Tobis) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:26:16 -0500 Subject: [python-advocacy] Studies of coding language vs productivity? Message-ID: Are there any formal studies evaluating programmer productivity vs source code language which explicitly include Python? I would like to cite something better than anecdotal evidence of the advantages of Python. This would go in an academic research proposal. thanks Michael Tobis From tapiotallgren at gmail.com Mon Apr 14 15:14:56 2008 From: tapiotallgren at gmail.com (Tapio Tallgren) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:14:56 +0300 Subject: [python-advocacy] Studies of coding language vs productivity? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is one:* http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf * -Tapio 2008/4/13 Michael Tobis : > Are there any formal studies evaluating programmer productivity vs > source code language which explicitly include Python? > > I would like to cite something better than anecdotal evidence of the > advantages of Python. This would go in an academic research proposal. > > thanks > Michael Tobis > _______________________________________________ > Advocacy mailing list > Advocacy at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy > -- -Tapio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20080414/e9ecac72/attachment.htm From david at boddie.org.uk Fri Apr 18 00:33:58 2008 From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:33:58 +0200 Subject: [python-advocacy] Why another language? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200804180033.58435.david@boddie.org.uk> On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:19:41 -0400, Noah Gift wrote: > If someone has been programming in C, ? > Bash and Perl for years, how can you really make a persuasive argument ? > they also need to learn Python. ?I suppose I would argue that once you ? > program in Python, you won't ever want to use another language again, ? > but that is my personal bias. ?What is our, or "the", answer for ? > someone that poses a very reasonable question like this? Whenever I hear about Python being used for tasks that are traditionally performed by Perl and Bash, I think of the Pardus Linux project: http://pardus.org.tr/eng/index.html Although we're not necessarily talking about the same kinds of tasks as those performed by sysadmins on a day-to-day basis, the following links might be worth looking at: http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/projects/comar/PythonInPardus.html http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/projeler/comar/SpeedingUpLinuxWithPardus.html David From noah.gift at gmail.com Fri Apr 18 05:22:35 2008 From: noah.gift at gmail.com (Noah Gift) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:22:35 -0400 Subject: [python-advocacy] Why another language? In-Reply-To: <20080410175107.GA9943@lairds.us> References: <75FA0F98-7319-4182-A76C-8547F8E4F360@gmail.com> <20080410175107.GA9943@lairds.us> Message-ID: Cameron, David and Carl, I apologize for not responding earlier we are in the last week of getting our book finished and it is a bit chaotic. These are all excellent suggestions, and we are incorporating these suggestions in the book as we can. One final question I had was if there was an official spot on the Python wiki for Systems Administration and people that write about systems administration. We want to make sure we give other bloggers, writers, and developers as much credit as we can, and point readers to further sources of information. In many cases, this will be pointing them to the original source :) A few random people that I have read sysadmin related material from are Sean, Cameron, David, Grig, Titus. I am sure I am missing many others, but having this information in a static URL on the python.org website would be excellent, but we need this by Monday. If someone would like me to create this static URL if it does not exist, I am more than happy to. Noah On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Cameron Laird wrote: > On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 10:19:41PM -0400, Noah Gift wrote: > . > . > . > > I think this might be my first post to the advocacy list, but I though > > I would share an interesting story. Jeremy Jones and I are in the > > last couple weeks of finishing, "Python for Unix and Linux Systems > > Administration", and we both feel like it could make a major ripple in > > that space. Our hope, honestly, is to displace to some degree, the > > notion that Bash and Perl are the only languages for Systems > > Administration. In fact, although even a few Python programmers might > . > . > . > > but that is my personal bias. What is our, or "the", answer for > > someone that poses a very reasonable question like this? > . > . > . > I'll answer an entirely different question: the things > you write are so reasonable that they've been said before > on more than one occasion. In a few cases, they've even > been published, examples of which are available through > http://www.fourm.info/Python/Python_Item.2004-08-14.2557 > > Best of luck with your book. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/advocacy/attachments/20080417/6aa7dc77/attachment.htm From Cameron at phaseit.net Fri Apr 18 21:35:42 2008 From: Cameron at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:35:42 +0000 Subject: [python-advocacy] Why another language? In-Reply-To: References: <75FA0F98-7319-4182-A76C-8547F8E4F360@gmail.com> <20080410175107.GA9943@lairds.us> Message-ID: <20080418193542.GA5931@lairds.us> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:22:35PM -0400, Noah Gift wrote: . . . > I apologize for not responding earlier we are in the last week of getting > our book finished and it is a bit chaotic. These are all excellent > suggestions, and we are incorporating these suggestions in the book as we > can. One final question I had was if there was an official spot on the > Python wiki for Systems Administration and people that write about systems > administration. We want to make sure we give other bloggers, writers, and > developers as much credit as we can, and point readers to further sources of > information. In many cases, this will be pointing them to the original > source :) > > A few random people that I have read sysadmin related material from are > Sean, Cameron, David, Grig, Titus. I am sure I am missing many others, but > having this information in a static URL on the python.org website would be > excellent, but we need this by Monday. If someone would like me to create > this static URL if it does not exist, I am more than happy to. . . . http://wiki.python.org/moin/systems_administration From aahz at pythoncraft.com Thu Apr 24 21:40:58 2008 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:40:58 -0700 Subject: [python-advocacy] FWD: Python Success Story (didactics of informatics) Message-ID: <20080424194058.GA23972@panix.com> ----- Forwarded message from Aroldo Souza-Leite ----- > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:38:07 +0200 > From: Aroldo Souza-Leite > To: webmaster at python.org > CC: philip > Subject: Python Success Story (didactics of informatics) > > Hi, > > this email is addressed to the administrator or chief editor of > http://www.python.org/about/success/. > > I would like to write a Python success story as an IT corporate trainer. > The company I work for (GFU Cyrus Cologne, http://www.gfu.net) has been > organising inhouse corporate IT seminars as well seminars in our Cologne > premises for 25 years, in various programming languages and IT topics. > Python has lately proved an outsanding choice when teaching programmers > to move quickly from traditional technologies to object oriented design, > but also a very convenient language for introducing beginners to the art > of programming as such. My point is to write an article analyzing and > justifying the Python syntax from the point of view of teaching > techniques as (ethically correctly) compared to other currently more > widespread programming languages. > > The "Education" section in the success stories page seems to mean rather > "python based software applied to education", whereas the GFU activities > would rather go under a section "Didactics of informatics" or "IT > Teaching techniques" . > > a) Is it possible to add such a section and the success stories page? > > b) Is there a reStructuredText template for writing a success story? > > Regards, > > Aroldo Souza-Leite > > (cc to Philip Cloth, acquisition department GFU Cyrus Cologne.) ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups? From sdeibel at python.org Fri Apr 25 04:16:59 2008 From: sdeibel at python.org (Stephan Deibel (PSF)) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:16:59 -0400 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Success Story (didactics of informatics) In-Reply-To: <20080424194058.GA23972@panix.com> References: <20080424194058.GA23972@panix.com> Message-ID: <48113F1B.6030807@python.org> Aroldo Souza-Leite wrote: >> this email is addressed to the administrator or chief editor of >> http://www.python.org/about/success/. >> >> I would like to write a Python success story as an IT corporate trainer. >> The company I work for (GFU Cyrus Cologne, http://www.gfu.net) has been >> organising inhouse corporate IT seminars as well seminars in our Cologne >> premises for 25 years, in various programming languages and IT topics. >> Python has lately proved an outsanding choice when teaching programmers >> to move quickly from traditional technologies to object oriented design, >> but also a very convenient language for introducing beginners to the art >> of programming as such. My point is to write an article analyzing and >> justifying the Python syntax from the point of view of teaching >> techniques as (ethically correctly) compared to other currently more >> widespread programming languages. >> >> The "Education" section in the success stories page seems to mean rather >> "python based software applied to education", whereas the GFU activities >> would rather go under a section "Didactics of informatics" or "IT >> Teaching techniques" . >> >> a) Is it possible to add such a section and the success stories page? The master copy of the stories is at http://pythonology.org/success and there is information about writing one here: http://pythonology.org/successguide I'm not completely sure what you plan to write makes sense in this context but it would probably be reasonable to at least link to it from somewhere on python.org or in the Python wiki. As far as the categories on python.org: They certainly can be changed, though let's wait to see if this is even appropriate as a "success story". >> b) Is there a reStructuredText template for writing a success story? There isn't a template but if you do decide to write it up as a success story please structure the story similar to the others. You can get at the ReST formatted stories through the story distribution service: http://pythonology.org/success&help=1 Here is an example: http://pythonology.org/success&rst=gravityzoo&noheader=1 Please let me know if you have any questions. -- Stephan Deibel Director Python Software Foundation http://python.org/psf From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com Fri Apr 25 12:50:37 2008 From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:50:37 +1000 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Success Story (didactics of informatics) In-Reply-To: <48113F1B.6030807@python.org> References: <20080424194058.GA23972@panix.com> <48113F1B.6030807@python.org> Message-ID: <43c8685c0804250350n134bc618mb8f4b90673ee1f96@mail.gmail.com> Hi Aroldo, If you would be interested, it would also make a very appropriate article for *The Python Papers*. We would be happy to edit and publish such an article. Let me know if you don't find a home for the article on the python.org website and we can get it online that way. Either way, it would be great to read the article once finished, so an email to myself or this list would be appreciated, and I will enjoy seeing what you have to say! Regards, -Tennessee On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Stephan Deibel (PSF) wrote: > Aroldo Souza-Leite wrote: > >> this email is addressed to the administrator or chief editor of >>> http://www.python.org/about/success/. >>> >>> I would like to write a Python success story as an IT corporate trainer. >>> The company I work for (GFU Cyrus Cologne, http://www.gfu.net) has been >>> organising inhouse corporate IT seminars as well seminars in our Cologne >>> premises for 25 years, in various programming languages and IT topics. >>> Python has lately proved an outsanding choice when teaching programmers to >>> move quickly from traditional technologies to object oriented design, but >>> also a very convenient language for introducing beginners to the art of >>> programming as such. My point is to write an article analyzing and >>> justifying the Python syntax from the point of view of teaching techniques >>> as (ethically correctly) compared to other currently more widespread >>> programming languages. >>> >>> The "Education" section in the success stories page seems to mean rather >>> "python based software applied to education", whereas the GFU activities >>> would rather go under a section "Didactics of informatics" or "IT Teaching >>> techniques" . >>> >>> a) Is it possible to add such a section and the success stories page? >>> >> > The master copy of the stories is at http://pythonology.org/success > and there is information about writing one here: > > http://pythonology.org/successguide > > I'm not completely sure what you plan to write makes sense in this > context but it would probably be reasonable to at least link to it > from somewhere on python.org or in the Python wiki. > > As far as the categories on python.org: They certainly can be changed, > though let's wait to see if this is even appropriate as a "success > story". > > b) Is there a reStructuredText template for writing a success story? >>> >> > There isn't a template but if you do decide to write it up as a success > story please structure the story similar to the others. You can get at > the ReST formatted stories through the story distribution service: > > http://pythonology.org/success&help=1 > > Here is an example: > > http://pythonology.org/success&rst=gravityzoo&noheader=1 > > Please let me know if you have any questions. > > -- > > Stephan Deibel > Director > Python Software Foundation > > http://python.org/psf > > > _______________________________________________ > Advocacy mailing list > Advocacy at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmarch at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 08:14:57 2008 From: mmarch at gmail.com (Michael March) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:14:57 -0700 Subject: [python-advocacy] "Python in the Enterprise" PowerPoint deck? Message-ID: <48bc40670804272314o3f7b19dbqdc06f47807f8e357@mail.gmail.com> I'm starting work on a PowerPoint slide deck on why Python should be used at my company. Before I go hog wild on this, I would like to ask everyone what would be the best presentation that is already out there to start from.. or should I just start from scratch? Thanks! -- Michael F. March ----- mmarch at gmail dot com "Seriously" - HSR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lac at openend.se Mon Apr 28 08:26:51 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:26:51 +0200 Subject: [python-advocacy] "Python in the Enterprise" PowerPoint deck? In-Reply-To: Message from "Michael March" of "Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:14:57 PDT." <48bc40670804272314o3f7b19dbqdc06f47807f8e357@mail.gmail.com> References: <48bc40670804272314o3f7b19dbqdc06f47807f8e357@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200804280626.m3S6QpCM021332@theraft.openend.se> In a message of Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:14:57 PDT, "Michael March" writes: >--===============2051978962== >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_Part_5776_1788552.1209363297221" > >------=_Part_5776_1788552.1209363297221 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Disposition: inline > >I'm starting work on a PowerPoint slide deck on why Python should be used > at >my company. Before I go hog wild on this, I would like to ask everyone wh >at >would be the best presentation that is already out there to start from.. >or >should I just start from scratch? > >Thanks! > > >-- > > >Michael F. March ----- mmarch at gmail dot com >"Seriously" - HSR Check out all of http://pythonology.org/ and in particular 'Subversion from within' from http://pythonology.org/links I think that's the best one to start with. Other people may have other favourites. Laura From roy at panix.com Mon Apr 28 17:04:48 2008 From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [python-advocacy] "Python in the Enterprise" PowerPoint deck? In-Reply-To: <48bc40670804272314o3f7b19dbqdc06f47807f8e357@mail.gmail.com> References: <48bc40670804272314o3f7b19dbqdc06f47807f8e357@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21972.128.221.197.21.1209395088.squirrel@mail.panix.com> > I'm starting work on a PowerPoint slide deck on why Python should be > used at my company. Before I go hog wild on this, I would like to ask > everyone what would be the best presentation that is already out there > to start from or should I just start from scratch? I'm not sure if you're talking about a startup deciding what language to go with, or getting a mature organization to add Python to their toolset. Having gone through several cycles of introducing Python to a mature organization, my experience is that if you try to convince them to use it you'll fail. Everybody will have 47 reasons why it's a bad idea. I don't want to learn a new language. Perl is just as good (or better). We can't use it because of the source code hiding problems. It's not supported on all our platforms (or, at least, not already installed). We don't like (or understand) the licensing. Whitespace is stupid. And so on. As you answer each one, another will pop up. It's a losing proposition. On the other hand, if you just go ahead and start using it for tools that are useful but not on the critical path, you will have an easier time of it. For example, when we rolled out IPv6 support, we were having loads of problems with our development, build, and test machines having messed up IPv6 configs (not surprising, since this was all new stuff to our IT guys). So, I wrote something in Python which checked for the 10 or so most common misconfiguration errors. It did things like verifying that you could look up the IPv6 address for a host, that this host had AAAA records in the DNS for itself, that you could open an IPv6 socket and connect to it, that various (OS-specific) patches were installed, and so on. Around the same time, we were fighting fires with machines having bogus system clocks, so I threw in some trivial NTP client code (using an Active State recipie) to do a sanity check on the system clock. Nobody *had* to use it, so I didn't have to convince anybody to allow Python to be used. Eventually, people learned if they used the tool, they would same themselves a lot of pain. When it got to the point where managers were asking, "Why didn't you use the config check tool?", it was a done deal. From Cameron at phaseit.net Mon Apr 28 17:10:15 2008 From: Cameron at phaseit.net (Cameron Laird) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:10:15 +0000 Subject: [python-advocacy] "Python in the Enterprise" PowerPoint deck? In-Reply-To: <21972.128.221.197.21.1209395088.squirrel@mail.panix.com> References: <48bc40670804272314o3f7b19dbqdc06f47807f8e357@mail.gmail.com> <21972.128.221.197.21.1209395088.squirrel@mail.panix.com> Message-ID: <20080428151015.GA24311@lairds.us> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:04:48AM -0400, Roy Smith wrote: . . . > For example, when we rolled out IPv6 support, we were having loads of > problems with our development, build, and test machines having messed up > IPv6 configs (not surprising, since this was all new stuff to our IT > guys). So, I wrote something in Python which checked for the 10 or so > most common misconfiguration errors. It did things like verifying that > you could look up the IPv6 address for a host, that this host had AAAA > records in the DNS for itself, that you could open an IPv6 socket and > connect to it, that various (OS-specific) patches were installed, and so > on. Around the same time, we were fighting fires with machines having > bogus system clocks, so I threw in some trivial NTP client code (using an > Active State recipie) to do a sanity check on the system clock. > > Nobody *had* to use it, so I didn't have to convince anybody to allow > Python to be used. Eventually, people learned if they used the tool, they > would same themselves a lot of pain. When it got to the point where > managers were asking, "Why didn't you use the config check tool?", it was > a done deal. . . . Me, too; I'm nodding with gusto limited only by physiologic constraints. Specific, concrete examples can be soooooo powerful. From roy at panix.com Mon Apr 28 18:19:19 2008 From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [python-advocacy] "Python in the Enterprise" PowerPoint deck? In-Reply-To: <48bc40670804280841t69643e8sb50a92825ed29074@mail.gmail.com> References: <48bc40670804272314o3f7b19dbqdc06f47807f8e357@mail.gmail.com> <21972.128.221.197.21.1209395088.squirrel@mail.panix.com> <48bc40670804280841t69643e8sb50a92825ed29074@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <28612.128.221.197.21.1209399559.squirrel@mail.panix.com> > I realize this is a path fraught with danger... On this project that I am > working on I already did a few successful stealth Python projects.. The > management is now asking, in a general sense, 'Why Python?' So I have to > respond. There is only one language that an organization like that understands -- dollars! The way to answer that question successfully has to be something along the lines of, "If I did it in FOO-LANGUAGE, it would have taken me X days. It took me Y days in Python. My time is worth $whatever per day, so we saved $whatever by doing it this way. For most places, taking your annual salary, multiplying by 1.5 to account for overhead, and dividing by about 240 working days per year gives you a reasonable approximation of what you cost per day.