From guenter.walser at wanagu.eu Sat Feb 7 22:06:06 2009 From: guenter.walser at wanagu.eu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnter_Walser?=) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:06:06 +0100 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python usage in big corporations and organisations Message-ID: Hello to all, I'm in the process of convincing a client to use Python as the base for a Web based enterprise tool (not mission critical, but it should be used by many parts of the organisation if everything goes fine). He starts to see the advantages of Python to develop, but is very concerned about the opinion the IT departments might have about Python. To circumvent the "Only Java" or similar policies I'm thinking about Jython, which is one apsect. But in my clients opinion it would be good to have a kind of "don't fear, look all these huge and successful companies use Python" list at hand. Which might give support for the people wanting it but having to fight opposition from IT-departments. Is there anything like this available? I've found some (the one from python.org, the wingware one (alsmost same)) but all of them miss the big names which might help to impress some. Google is so far the only one big and pythonistic I'm aware of. Thanks for any hint or idea how to approach this problem. Best regards G?nter From aahz at pythoncraft.com Sat Feb 7 23:02:39 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:02:39 -0800 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python usage in big corporations and organisations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090207220239.GA7478@panix.com> On Sat, Feb 07, 2009, G?nter Walser wrote: > > But in my clients opinion it would be good to have a kind of "don't fear, > look all these huge and successful companies use Python" list at hand. > > Which might give support for the people wanting it but having to fight > opposition from IT-departments. > > Is there anything like this available? I've found some (the one from > python.org, the wingware one (alsmost same)) but all of them miss the big > names which might help to impress some. Google is so far the only one big > and pythonistic I'm aware of. Did you find this one? It mentions YouTube (technically now part of Google but they scaled with Python long before Google bought them) and ILM: http://www.python.org/about/quotes/ I found it by Googling for "who uses python?"; similar queries ought to produce more results. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Weinberg's Second Law: If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization. From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 23:50:48 2009 From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 09:50:48 +1100 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python usage in big corporations and organisations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43c8685c0902071450s1191e4edv7eda79cb273eeff4@mail.gmail.com> Hi Gunter, I don't know of many places who *exclusively* use Python, but plenty of people focus on it. The United States National Weather Service use it heavily (see the GFE). As far as I can tell, Python is becoming increasingly accepted as capable of "real" programming. In my opinion it has outstripped Perl in this regard, but is still less-used than Perl for scripting-type work. One thing which is great about Python is that its cross-platform support is good. It is also in Mono/.Net. You might have an easier time convincing your organisation to use .Net, whereupon you can have good interoperability between multiple languages. I think it would be a hard sell for an "old school" or out-of-touch IT department to rally behind Python. Technically, Python can do the job, but I think it still doesn't carry the "safe option" tag that Java, C++, or .Net might carry. Rather than selling Python, you might be better off selling specific application stacks or individual applications. Python also has a lot of takeup in the scientific community. Regards, -Tennessee On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:06 AM, G?nter Walser wrote: > Hello to all, > > I'm in the process of convincing a client to use Python as the base for a > Web based enterprise tool (not mission critical, but it should be used by > many parts of the organisation if everything goes fine). > > He starts to see the advantages of Python to develop, but is very concerned > about the opinion the IT departments might have about Python. > > To circumvent the "Only Java" or similar policies I'm thinking about > Jython, > which is one apsect. > > But in my clients opinion it would be good to have a kind of "don't fear, > look all these huge and successful companies use Python" list at hand. > > Which might give support for the people wanting it but having to fight > opposition from IT-departments. > > Is there anything like this available? I've found some (the one from > python.org, the wingware one (alsmost same)) but all of them miss the big > names which might help to impress some. Google is so far the only one big > and pythonistic I'm aware of. > > Thanks for any hint or idea how to approach this problem. > > Best regards > > G?nter > > > > _______________________________________________ > Advocacy mailing list > Advocacy at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy > -- -------------------------------------------------- Tennessee Leeuwenburg http://myownhat.blogspot.com/ "Don't believe everything you think" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sdeibel at wingware.com Sun Feb 8 00:00:18 2009 From: sdeibel at wingware.com (Stephan Deibel) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 18:00:18 -0500 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python usage in big corporations and organisations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498E1282.5020104@wingware.com> G?nter Walser wrote: > Hello to all, > > I'm in the process of convincing a client to use Python as the base for a > Web based enterprise tool (not mission critical, but it should be used by > many parts of the organisation if everything goes fine). > > He starts to see the advantages of Python to develop, but is very concerned > about the opinion the IT departments might have about Python. > > To circumvent the "Only Java" or similar policies I'm thinking about Jython, > which is one apsect. > > But in my clients opinion it would be good to have a kind of "don't fear, > look all these huge and successful companies use Python" list at hand. > > Which might give support for the people wanting it but having to fight > opposition from IT-departments. > > Is there anything like this available? I've found some (the one from > python.org, the wingware one (alsmost same)) but all of them miss the big > names which might help to impress some. Google is so far the only one big > and pythonistic I'm aware of. > > Thanks for any hint or idea how to approach this problem. > In addition to the link Aahz sent, see also http://wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython For http://python.org/about/success/ (also at http://wingware.com/python/success/ with a few additions) it's been hard to get large companies to approve stories, although I also haven't tried very hard in recent years so additions have been only unsolicited stories. Google specifically has a policy against doing things like the success stories (I did ask them) and this is not unusual for such companies. -- Stephan From mmarch at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 00:13:19 2009 From: mmarch at gmail.com (Michael March) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:13:19 -0700 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python usage in big corporations and organisations In-Reply-To: <498E1282.5020104@wingware.com> References: <498E1282.5020104@wingware.com> Message-ID: <48bc40670902071513t19c8edb0y38fb7d2378329f72@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Stephan Deibel wrote: > G?nter Walser wrote: > >> Hello to all, >> I'm in the process of convincing a client to use Python as the base for a >> Web based enterprise tool (not mission critical, but it should be used by >> many parts of the organisation if everything goes fine). >> >> He starts to see the advantages of Python to develop, but is very >> concerned >> about the opinion the IT departments might have about Python. >> >> To circumvent the "Only Java" or similar policies I'm thinking about >> Jython, >> which is one apsect. >> But in my clients opinion it would be good to have a kind of "don't fear, >> look all these huge and successful companies use Python" list at hand. >> Which might give support for the people wanting it but having to fight >> opposition from IT-departments. >> >> Is there anything like this available? I've found some (the one from >> python.org, the wingware one (alsmost same)) but all of them miss the big >> names which might help to impress some. Google is so far the only one big >> and pythonistic I'm aware of. >> >> Thanks for any hint or idea how to approach this problem. >> > In addition to the link Aahz sent, see also > http://wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython > > For http://python.org/about/success/ (also at > http://wingware.com/python/success/ with a few > additions) it's been hard to get large companies to approve stories, > although I also haven't tried > very hard in recent years so additions have been only unsolicited stories. > Google specifically > has a policy against doing things like the success stories (I did ask them) > and this is not unusual > for such companies. > In Google's case you need a "success story". They pulled a "we liked it so much we bought the company" and hired the creator of Python... 'nuff said there -- Michael F. March ----- mmarch at gmail.com Ph: (415)462-1910 ---- Fax: (602)296-0400 P.O. Box 2254 ---- Phoenix, AZ 85002-2254 "Seriously" - HSR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeevb.public at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 08:34:19 2009 From: zeevb.public at gmail.com (Zeev B) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 09:34:19 +0200 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python usage in big corporations and organisations In-Reply-To: <48bc40670902071513t19c8edb0y38fb7d2378329f72@mail.gmail.com> References: <498E1282.5020104@wingware.com> <48bc40670902071513t19c8edb0y38fb7d2378329f72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ea013420902072334w6532e71y177022c7ad1a49ae@mail.gmail.com> 2 More resources - Python success stories booklets published by O'Reilly: http://www.onlamp.com/oreilly/python/news/PythonSS.pdf http://www.onlamp.com/oreilly/python/news/python_success_stories.pdf Ze'ev On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 01:13, Michael March wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Stephan Deibel wrote: > >> G?nter Walser wrote: >> >>> Hello to all, >>> I'm in the process of convincing a client to use Python as the base for >>> a >>> Web based enterprise tool (not mission critical, but it should be used by >>> many parts of the organisation if everything goes fine). >>> >>> He starts to see the advantages of Python to develop, but is very >>> concerned >>> about the opinion the IT departments might have about Python. >>> >>> To circumvent the "Only Java" or similar policies I'm thinking about >>> Jython, >>> which is one apsect. >>> But in my clients opinion it would be good to have a kind of "don't fear, >>> look all these huge and successful companies use Python" list at hand. >>> Which might give support for the people wanting it but having to fight >>> opposition from IT-departments. >>> >>> Is there anything like this available? I've found some (the one from >>> python.org, the wingware one (alsmost same)) but all of them miss the >>> big >>> names which might help to impress some. Google is so far the only one big >>> and pythonistic I'm aware of. >>> >>> Thanks for any hint or idea how to approach this problem. >>> >> In addition to the link Aahz sent, see also >> http://wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython >> >> For http://python.org/about/success/ (also at >> http://wingware.com/python/success/ with a few >> additions) it's been hard to get large companies to approve stories, >> although I also haven't tried >> very hard in recent years so additions have been only unsolicited stories. >> Google specifically >> has a policy against doing things like the success stories (I did ask >> them) and this is not unusual >> for such companies. >> > > In Google's case you need a "success story". They pulled a "we liked it so > much we bought the company" and hired the creator of Python... 'nuff said > there > > > > -- > > > Michael F. March ----- mmarch at gmail.com > Ph: (415)462-1910 ---- Fax: (602)296-0400 > P.O. Box 2254 ---- Phoenix, AZ 85002-2254 > "Seriously" - HSR > > > _______________________________________________ > Advocacy mailing list > Advocacy at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roy at panix.com Mon Feb 9 15:16:36 2009 From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:16:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [python-advocacy] (only some of the) Batteries Included Message-ID: <54678.128.222.37.21.1234188996.squirrel@mail.panix.com> I realize this may not be practical for N different reasons, but it would be great if the database modules (well, at least for MySQL and ODBC) were included with the core python distribution. There's lots of good reasons to do this, but let me limit this conversation to one specific reason. There's been a thread going on between a bunch of developers inside the company I work for (EMC), about using Java vs. Python for a project that involves a MySQL database. Here's a quote from the most recent message, from a guy who's just recently become interested in Python (he's mostly C++/Java/Perl): > The only downside to Python is the hassle we'll have with "Legal" over > grabbing something off SourgeForce. I suspect the situation in my company is not much different from most other large companies. Our legal department is OK with the idea of using FOSS, but requires a legal review of everything before use (not that I can blame them). There is a very strong incentive to go with something that Legal has already approved, rather than go through the red tape to get something new approved. If the DB stuff were part of the core distribution, that would be one less barrier to adoption. Like I said above, I'm aware that this may be totally impractical for many reasons. Still, from an advocacy point of view, it would be a win. From aahz at pythoncraft.com Mon Feb 9 15:25:32 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 06:25:32 -0800 Subject: [python-advocacy] (only some of the) Batteries Included In-Reply-To: <54678.128.222.37.21.1234188996.squirrel@mail.panix.com> References: <54678.128.222.37.21.1234188996.squirrel@mail.panix.com> Message-ID: <20090209142532.GA5437@panix.com> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009, Roy Smith wrote: > > I realize this may not be practical for N different reasons, but it would > be great if the database modules (well, at least for MySQL and ODBC) were > included with the core python distribution. Have you looked into the Enthought and/or ActiveState distributions? They may already include them. This subject does come up regularly, and you can probably Google for archives as well as I can. ;-) -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Weinberg's Second Law: If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization. From bjorn at exoweb.net Wed Feb 25 10:44:57 2009 From: bjorn at exoweb.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn_Stabell?=) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:44:57 +0800 Subject: [python-advocacy] Python Facebook page and python.cn domain Message-ID: <13849DB7-361A-494C-B53C-4F9FABD871FC@exoweb.net> Hi, Some months ago I created a facebook page for Python, primarily because there was no page for Python and I wanted to show that I am a fan of Python, secondarily because I was curious how Facebook pages worked. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Python/7899581788 Today I was setting up another Facebook page, and when I stumbled across the page on Facebook that lists the stats I was shocked to find that the Python page now has almost 3,000 fans! I think it'll be wrong of me to sit on the control of this page, so I would like to hand it over to you. Anyways, for Exoweb, my company in China, the page would perhaps only useful for recruitment promotion (we're always looking for great software developers that want to take the leap to China), but I think it would be wrong to take undue advantage of the page for this. Anyways, if you know of any, send them to http://www.exoweb.net/en/jobs/ :) PS! Exoweb also bought python.cn a long time ago, and we've been using it to for the Python user groups and communities in China. Would the PSF be interested in taking over this domain as well? Rgds, Bjorn Stabell Exoweb Beijing, China -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: